So, I thought I'd have time after work to hammer out a character for tonight but I just found out that I have to knock out some overtime before I leave. I had already told our DM that I'm going to play a druid eventually rolling over into the assassin prestige class - and that's still the direction I want to go. Ive never played a druid before and I kinda like the idea of death attacks in panther form or some-such thing like that.
We're starting at lvl 3 with the 20pt stat buy, we're only allowed Core+APG.
Any help with maybe the first 3 - ?? levels or so would be greatly appreciated!
The assassin is a very weak prestige class, and I strongly recommend against using it on any character. It's way too much of a one-trick pony, and any time you're in a combat situation where you can't make a death attack you will be close to useless. The fact that you'll lose out on spellcasting powers and further advancement of your wild shape ability will leave your conventional combat prowess far below par, and death attack requires you to invest maximum levels in assassin if you want it to have any reasonable chance of success and even then it only really works once per battle and only if you have the element of surprise.
I'd suggest using something like the Nature Fang Druid archetype to get similar powers without sacrificing your key competencies. As a wild-shape focused Druid, you will typically want to invest heavily in strength and keep your wisdom investment to a minimum. 13 wisdom allows you to access 9th level spells if you have a +6 headband, letting you leave your wisdom alone and buff up your strength for better combat prowess.
On a 20 PB human, I'd say:
18 Str
14 Dex
14 Con
9 Int
13 Wis
8 Cha
The assassin is a very weak prestige class, and I strongly recommend against using it on any character. It's way too much of a one-trick pony, and any time you're in a combat situation where you can't make a death attack you will be close to useless. The fact that you'll lose out on spellcasting powers and further advancement of your wild shape ability will leave your conventional combat prowess far below par, and death attack requires you to invest maximum levels in assassin if you want it to have any reasonable chance of success and even then it only really works once per battle and only if you have the element of surprise.
Thanks for the info, and I know its not optimal but I'm going to muscle through it anyways. Ive never actually seen anyone in our group play an assassin and I really want to take my crack at it.
The assassin isn't so much suboptimal as it is non-functional. There are lots of ways to make weaker options work, or even make them good, but this one is especially bad since it's a one-trick pony with multiple points of failure in its one trick. If you're absolutely committed to this, here's what you'll probably want to do:
11 Str
18 Dex
10 Con
16 Int
13 Wis
7 Cha
Death attack's DC is based on your intelligence so you'll need to invest in that. I'm not a fan of dumping charisma down to 7, but your starved so heavily for points that you kinda need it. Strength needs to be dropped in favor of more dexterity since stealth is non-negotiable for you (if stealth fails, death attack fails). You should ask your GM about the fractional base bonus alternate rule. This will help your beleaguered base attack bonus avoid the unfavorable rounding due to your multiclassing. Every four levels, chose dexterity as the score to increase. Remember, enemies don't need to make a saving throw if you miss your attack or if they beat your stealth check, so dexterity takes priority over intelligence.
For feats:
1 - Weapon Focus
3 - Skill Focus (Stealth)
5 - Natural Spell
7 - Dampen Presence
9 - Hellcat Stealth
Weapon finesse and natural spell are obvious feat taxes that you just need for this concept to work. The other feats here allow you to use stealth in situations where stealth might normally not be possible. Prepare the negate aroma spell to beat scent and purchase boots of the soft step to beat tremorsense and you've got most anti-stealth abilities countered. You can change the order of the 5/7/9 feats to preference, but you really want all of them.
For items, you'll want Shadow Armor to boost your stealth check further, and you'll want to pick up an agile weapon so you're not completely helpless when not shapeshifted. You'll need a belt of incredible dexterity and a headband of intellect to ensure you can land your death attack and have a high DC that is hard to resist. Standard items like cloak of protection, amulet of natural armor, and ring of protection come strongly advised as usual.
Once again, I don't think this character will be particularly good and is very much a one-tricky pony, but this should give you the best chance of pulling it off as often as possible.
Int is a bit important for the Assassin. BTW the stat synergy is awful. Int is an important stat for the Death Blow ability, Druid needs wisdom, Strength is going to be your primary stat to hit. Since you'll be in melee a lot you can't afford to ignore Dex or Con. Quite frankly this is a mess.
Don't forget that most of the time you'll need to succeed on stealth checks to pull off death attack, which is dex-based. On 20 point buy I think going finesse-based is the only real option here, because 13 intelligence is not tenable when you've only got one shot at a death attack.
Actually stick with druid to 6th level so you can become a large animal and wildshape twice a day. Wildshape should eat 2 of your feats. Take Wild Speach (6th level) and Natural Spell (1st level). Since your limited on weapon selection but you'll depend on it as an Assassin, might as well start now on feats. I'd recommend Scimitar, or dagger if you want to go two weapon fighting.
Wild Speech is a great choice, I'd concur. You probably don't want to sink feats into TWF since it doesn't help you while wildshaped, but assassin will give you short sword proficiency if you want to do that.
Taking druid up to 6th would be an improvement, but it's a bit of a slippery slope because once you're 6th level you could make a similar argument regarding 7th level and the game-changing 4th level spells it brings, and once you're 7th level you have exactly the same conundrum with beast shape III arriving at 8th. At the end of the day, the crux of the issue is that you'll always better better with "just one more level" of druid and delaying assassin indefinitely.
Then again I'd probably choose a Rogue, or a Magus to make into an Assassin.
For what it's worth, I feel the Fighter is probably the best Assassin. The Elven Battle Focus feat chain gives you int-to-damage, and the fighter is very accurate and more likely to land the death attack. Overall this makes you a lot more functional entering into assassin and better able to deal with the fact that it doesn't really give that much.
Oops, I missed the Core+APG limitation. This is difficult enough with the full breadth of all published splatbooks, but with core+APG there's not really much you can do to help it at all. That just leads back to square one: this build is spread too thin stat-wise, it's invested too heavily in doing one very specific thing, there are way too many things that can disrupt its the death attack, and any time your one-trick-pony doesn't work you're anemically weak and have little to contribute in combat.
Would you be fine with rogue or ninja into Assassin with a high UMD?
You could use wands or magic items to replicate spells and the stats are a lot easier.
Running numbers. Assuming you build for 20 Int to start. Assume you switch to assassin immediately after 5 levels of Druid. At 1st level of Assassin, your death DC will be 16.
Keep in mind that you actually need to hit as well.
And yes, the math on death attack is shaky even before you consider stealth or the simple act of actually hitting the target. Now I actually do think the ability is pretty decent in spite of that, but not enough to carry an entire player character. You need fallbacks and other options to complement it, and the assassin does not provide that.
Well, you guys talked me out of it. I've had awhile to think about it. Because of RL stuff our game didnt happen last week. So I ended up getting a little more time to mull it over. I still want to make a druid but I dont want to have to keep up with the animal companion. I'm not sure what direction im going to go now. I remember old posts about druids shape-shifting into tiny flying creatures and zotting things with lighting - that doesn't sound awful. Whatever I do its still going to be a 20pt buy and still Core+APG only.
Thanks for all the info guys. I dont get to play just too terribly much so I'm kinda glad I got the lowdown on the assassin before-hand. Im usually of the opinion that any class can work - but I dont feel like forcing the issue quite so much this time.
The Treantmonk Druid guide is excellent and covers caster druids with battlefield manipulation.
Casting while flying as a hawk is certainly fun. :)
The Treantmonk Druid guide is excellent and covers caster druids with battlefield manipulation.
Casting while flying as a hawk is certainly fun. :)
For sure, that part sounds very appealing.