What would be the worst country to live in on Golarion?


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion

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I know a lot of people will probably say Cheliax but I don't think that's the worst as for one thing you aren't required to worship Asmodeus and not all people in power are evil.

Grand Lodge

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Nisroch


Cheliax is probably one of the better countries to live in, so long as you don't do anything to get on Hell or House Thrune's bad side and aren't a Halfling. It would be a very stable government to live under.

Honestly, the more chaotic countries (especially ones lacking a strong government) are probably the ones that are the worst to live in.

Grand Lodge

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Yeah Galt would be rough -- but I think only if you were a rabble rouser or politico.

I still go with Nisroch (Pangolais, Nidal). I can't imagine living in a place like Nisroch.


Irrisen would also suck as a non-Jadwigga.


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Azlant.


Razmiran sounds pretty bad. Are people required to worship Razmir there or not?

Dark Archive

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Yqatuba wrote:
Razmiran sounds pretty bad. Are people required to worship Razmir there or not?

You might be able to get away with not worshipping him (how would he know?), but you'd still pay a tithe' to his masked thugs (er, I mean 'priests') whenever they felt like hitting you up to 'show your devotion.'

And I'd imagine the 'church' is none too fond of showing any devotion to another god (like preaching their tenets, or even openly wearing one of their holy symbols), or those who declaim Razmir's divinity or right to rule or what not...

But I'd still put Galt as my #1 least favorite place to live, of the actual nations of the Inner Sea. (There are lots of non-nations, like the Worldwound or Eye of Abendago or Sodden Lands that would be even less fun...) My grandmother lived in post WW2 France, and her stories of people pointing fingers and accusing their rivals of having been collaborators were pretty scary.

Grand Lodge

I still hold firm on Nisroch -- yet Irrisen, Razmiran and Galt would be horrible.

But I just thought of the Hold of Belkzen, too.

I guess we usually think of it as a "non-nation" like Worldound and Abendego and Shackles, but Belkzen is a, er, bonafide 'nation.'


Galt with its endless witch hunts for dissidents and soul-trapping guillotines would be a pretty horrible place to live, and would not be a safe place to visit.

Hell, Galt probably mirrors living as a commoner in drow society - your entire survival hinges on the powerful ignoring you.

Irrisen and Geb would be horrible places to be commoners in but relatively okay for foreign visitors, as long as you don't stir up trouble.

Razmiran or the Worldwound are also bad - horrible to live in unless you successfully join the ruling party, and dangerous to visit.


Ustalav or Nidal, hands down.


Nidal probably, for obvious reasons. Also, apparently people live in the Worldwound, but I can't really imagine how.

Hermea is probably not the worst possible, but doesn't sound great by any means.

Cheliax has excurciations and state surveillance, but at least its got wine and theatre.


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Claxon wrote:
Cheliax is probably one of the better countries to live in, so long as you don't do anything to get on Hell or House Thrune's bad side and aren't a Halfling. It would be a very stable government to live under.

I understand that most Tieflings get bad treatment in Cheliax (just a bit less bad than the Halflings).

Claxon wrote:

Honestly, the more chaotic countries (especially ones lacking a strong government) are probably the ones that are the worst to live in.

Not necessarily -- a strong central government can go a long way towards organizing forces to eliminate or enslave you, and short of that to ensure that you can never get away. A Chaotic Evil place would be bad, but at least it might be possible to escape if you can survive long enough.


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Geb. If you're not undead or a necromancer then you're chattel (=slave first, food later, and recycled as a zombie). It's like a triple indignity!


UnArcaneElection wrote:
Claxon wrote:
Cheliax is probably one of the better countries to live in, so long as you don't do anything to get on Hell or House Thrune's bad side and aren't a Halfling. It would be a very stable government to live under.

I understand that most Tieflings get bad treatment in Cheliax (just a bit less bad than the Halflings).

Claxon wrote:

Honestly, the more chaotic countries (especially ones lacking a strong government) are probably the ones that are the worst to live in.

Not necessarily -- a strong central government can go a long way towards organizing forces to eliminate or enslave you, and short of that to ensure that you can never get away. A Chaotic Evil place would be bad, but at least it might be possible to escape if you can survive long enough.

Ehh...I'm thinking about this from the perspective of the average person.

In Cheliax if you're not one of the persecuted groups and don't try to get involved in Thrune's affairs you will be overlooked and the country will ensure your safety...for the most part. It's far safer and stable for the average person than chaotic places are for the average person.

I'm not saying Cheliax is nice, I'm saying if your a human in Cheliax who minds their own business, you're going to be just fine.

If you're a human in the Shackles, there's a strong chance you'll be press ganged or otherwise set upon by pirates and will be lucky to only lose your valuables.

Dark Archive

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Jeven wrote:
Geb. If you're not undead or a necromancer then you're chattel (=slave first, food later, and recycled as a zombie). It's like a triple indignity!

Officially, the 'Dead Laws' just give intelligent undead (and not all intelligent undead, murder-happy morhgs are unwelcome!) the *same rights as living folk,* not some special status above the living.

Practically, yeah, the immortal undead and powerful spellcasters have risen to the top of the heap, but it's not like 'living = slave or food' in Geb.

It would still be just a smidge above 'the burning heart of the sun' or 'the pit of Gormuz' on my list of vacation choices, but it's not quite as dire as the overwrought tales suggest. Like Nidal, Irrisen, Cheliax, etc. it's a functional country with plenty of not-crazy-evil people just muddling through and getting on with their lives as best they can.


Claxon wrote:
UnArcaneElection wrote:
Claxon wrote:
Cheliax is probably one of the better countries to live in, so long as you don't do anything to get on Hell or House Thrune's bad side and aren't a Halfling. It would be a very stable government to live under.

I understand that most Tieflings get bad treatment in Cheliax (just a bit less bad than the Halflings).

Claxon wrote:

Honestly, the more chaotic countries (especially ones lacking a strong government) are probably the ones that are the worst to live in.

Not necessarily -- a strong central government can go a long way towards organizing forces to eliminate or enslave you, and short of that to ensure that you can never get away. A Chaotic Evil place would be bad, but at least it might be possible to escape if you can survive long enough.

Ehh...I'm thinking about this from the perspective of the average person.

In Cheliax if you're not one of the persecuted groups and don't try to get involved in Thrune's affairs you will be overlooked and the country will ensure your safety...for the most part. It's far safer and stable for the average person than chaotic places are for the average person.

I'm not saying Cheliax is nice, I'm saying if your a human in Cheliax who minds their own business, you're going to be just fine.

If you're a human in the Shackles, there's a strong chance you'll be press ganged or otherwise set upon by pirates and will be lucky to only lose your valuables.

But even if you're a Human minding your own business in Cheliax, you run the risk that you may need to read something that House Thrune and the Order of the Rack has decided is "obsolete"(*), and then you're in trouble, and may even find yourself declared an unperson.

(*)Like for instance, what happened to one or more of your beloved family members.


If you find yourself in a situation where you "need" to do something that House Thrune has decided you shouldn't, you're making a decision to cause trouble. Yeah, you really want to know how beloved family member died. But you also know trying to find out could be how you die.

Again, Cheliax aint nice. That's certainly true. It is the epitome of a tyrant government. But tyrant's still want people to rule. Most people are just fine keeping their heads down, and are protected from external threats (other nations) and from mundane internal threats (like theft) as well as can be expected.

Yes, there are plenty of cases where you can get yourself in trouble. In lawful evil countries it's more likely than in others. That's not what this is about. This is about who on a day to day basis is going to live the most/least comfortable lives under their government.

Criticizing the leader of a certain Asian country and comparing them to a certain honey loving bear can get you "disappeared", but that doesn't mean the average person of the citizenry is in any real danger as long as they're not openly criticizing the government.

I think you're looking at this the wrong way, which is "How bad can you get screwed for doing things (we take for granted)?" vs "How likely is the average person going to be killed while trying to live their daily life?"


Set wrote:

Officially, the 'Dead Laws' just give intelligent undead (and not all intelligent undead, murder-happy morhgs are unwelcome!) the *same rights as living folk,* not some special status above the living.

Practically, yeah, the immortal undead and powerful spellcasters have risen to the top of the heap, but it's not like 'living = slave or food' in Geb.

There isn't much info on Geb but there are a few illustrations of it in Campaign books.

The chattel (slave/food/zombie) thing I think I gleaned from a couple of sources. The NPC Guide was one, which tells the tale of a regular "life as chattel" man from Geb, and the other Undead Unleashed perhaps (can't quite remember).


Top 10 worst Inner Sea places to live...

10. Hermea
9. Sodden Lands
8. Galt
7. Razmiran
6. Hold of Belkzen
5. Irrisen
4. Nidal
3. The Darklands
2. Geb
1. The Worldwound

Cheliax doesn't make the list!


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Claxon wrote:

If you find yourself in a situation where you "need" to do something that House Thrune has decided you shouldn't, you're making a decision to cause trouble. Yeah, you really want to know how beloved family member died. But you also know trying to find out could be how you die.

Again, Cheliax aint nice. That's certainly true. It is the epitome of a tyrant government. But tyrant's still want people to rule. Most people are just fine keeping their heads down, and are protected from external threats (other nations) and from mundane internal threats (like theft) as well as can be expected.

Yes, there are plenty of cases where you can get yourself in trouble. In lawful evil countries it's more likely than in others. That's not what this is about. This is about who on a day to day basis is going to live the most/least comfortable lives under their government.
{. . .}

If some Infernal noble decides to abuse your family in Cheliax, you're out of luck unless you're another (at least nominally) Infernal noble. And judging from what was going on in Westcrown up to Council of Thieves, House Thrune doesn't even do a good job of protecting people from mundane internal threats (including theft), because they only care about that which threatens them . . . just like George Orwell described in Nineteen Eighty Four, and just like what goes on in the former Soviet Union.

Silver Crusade

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UnArcaneElection wrote:
Claxon wrote:

If you find yourself in a situation where you "need" to do something that House Thrune has decided you shouldn't, you're making a decision to cause trouble. Yeah, you really want to know how beloved family member died. But you also know trying to find out could be how you die.

Again, Cheliax aint nice. That's certainly true. It is the epitome of a tyrant government. But tyrant's still want people to rule. Most people are just fine keeping their heads down, and are protected from external threats (other nations) and from mundane internal threats (like theft) as well as can be expected.

Yes, there are plenty of cases where you can get yourself in trouble. In lawful evil countries it's more likely than in others. That's not what this is about. This is about who on a day to day basis is going to live the most/least comfortable lives under their government.
{. . .}

If some Infernal noble decides to abuse your family in Cheliax, you're out of luck unless you're another (at least nominally) Infernal noble. And judging from what was going on in Westcrown up to Council of Thieves, House Thrune doesn't even do a good job of protecting people from mundane internal threats (including theft), because they only care about that which threatens them . . . just like George Orwell described in Nineteen Eighty Four, and just like what goes on in the former Soviet Union.

In here because I love slapping uneducated Muricans around: "former Soviet Union" is a barely relevant (because it's been 30 teras since the USSR fell) term which covers such a broad array of countries from cyber clean and lean EU members (Baltics) through struggling achievers (Georgia, Mongolia), rich kingdoms (Azerbaijan), poor kingdoms (Uzbekistan) and weird what the hell are this places (Transnistria) that painting them with a single broad stroke is about as accurate as calling every Muricans a barely literate gun-totin' religious wingnut.


^I am not uneducated, and just in case you didn't notice, some rather important officials of the former Soviet Union are in control of very large parts of it -- not every bit of it, of course, but a majority.


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UnArcaneElection wrote:
Claxon wrote:

If you find yourself in a situation where you "need" to do something that House Thrune has decided you shouldn't, you're making a decision to cause trouble. Yeah, you really want to know how beloved family member died. But you also know trying to find out could be how you die.

Again, Cheliax aint nice. That's certainly true. It is the epitome of a tyrant government. But tyrant's still want people to rule. Most people are just fine keeping their heads down, and are protected from external threats (other nations) and from mundane internal threats (like theft) as well as can be expected.

Yes, there are plenty of cases where you can get yourself in trouble. In lawful evil countries it's more likely than in others. That's not what this is about. This is about who on a day to day basis is going to live the most/least comfortable lives under their government.
{. . .}

If some Infernal noble decides to abuse your family in Cheliax, you're out of luck unless you're another (at least nominally) Infernal noble. And judging from what was going on in Westcrown up to Council of Thieves, House Thrune doesn't even do a good job of protecting people from mundane internal threats (including theft), because they only care about that which threatens them . . . just like George Orwell described in Nineteen Eighty Four, and just like what goes on in the former Soviet Union.

Welcome to live pretty much anywhere before the modern era, and still in a lot of places.

The point isn't that Cheliax is wonderful, it's that it's surprisingly not awful for a country run by devils. And that there are plenty of worse places in Golarion.


thejeff wrote:

Welcome to live pretty much anywhere before the modern era, and still in a lot of places.

The point isn't that Cheliax is wonderful, it's that it's surprisingly not awful for a country run by devils. And that there are plenty of worse places in Golarion.

Exactly, thank you! You get what I'm trying to say.

Yes, s$*! can be bad for certain individuals. But UnArcaneElection was focusing too much on individual outcomes and not the whole.

I've said this repeatedly. Bad s@$+ can absolutely happen to you as a resident of Cheliax. But it's significantly less likely to happen to you compared to other places. Lawful Evil isn't nice, but it does tend to keep things clean and orderly, and as long as your remain part of the order you're probably okay compared to say...the Worldwound.

Haladir wrote:

Top 10 worst Inner Sea places to live...

10. Hermea
9. Sodden Lands
8. Galt
7. Razmiran
6. Hold of Belkzen
5. Irrisen
4. Nidal
3. The Darklands
2. Geb
1. The Worldwound

Cheliax doesn't make the list!

I have to ask, why does Hermea make the list?

I've haven't played an AP which involves them, but aside from their description of an Authoritarian Dictatorship which limits your free will, it sounds like a very safe place for individuals to live, providing good potential for personal growth.


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Claxon wrote:

I have to ask, why does Hermea make the list?

I've haven't played an AP which involves them, but aside from their description of an Authoritarian Dictatorship which limits your free will, it sounds like a very safe place for individuals to live, providing good potential for personal growth.

Have you heard of an old British series called 'The Prisoner'?

It's less 'limits free will' and more 'surrender any and all personal autonomy and obey a eugenics obsessed near immortal in all things without question or be roasted by dragon fire'. *shudders* I'd take 'might be stabbed' over that any day.

Edit to avoid double posting: Thinking outside the Inner Sea, I suggest (from best to worst); Koaling, Wanshou and Shenmen. (YMMV but I'm not a spider fan.)


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Belkzen, no contest.

There are a lot of bad places though. Most dictatorships you can somewhat live in, as long as you're okay with utter submission to the rule and keeping your head down.

Cheliax specifically, harsh as it is, strives to ensure its rules apply to everyone. Of course, finding loopholes is the hobby of the powerful, but they might actually get punished if they get caught. Nobility is not above the law here (royalty might be).

As for the Geb discussion, iirc there are both living citizens and humanoid chattel, but those are are different, separate things.
Although it is likely quite possible to get downgraded from one to the other, and eternal (un)life is kind of an asset when it comes to getting in a position of power. Just a bit.
Still, living citizens should be able to live decently, if in fear. Necromancers, obviously, get the most out of it and are noted as such.


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Claxon wrote:
thejeff wrote:

Welcome to live pretty much anywhere before the modern era, and still in a lot of places.

The point isn't that Cheliax is wonderful, it's that it's surprisingly not awful for a country run by devils. And that there are plenty of worse places in Golarion.

Exactly, thank you! You get what I'm trying to say.

Yes, s%%# can be bad for certain individuals. But UnArcaneElection was focusing too much on individual outcomes and not the whole.
{. . .}

Not just individuals (although when bad stuff happens to a lot of individuals, it adds up), but also whole demographic groups (including but almost certainly not limited to Halflings and Tieflings).


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UnArcaneElection wrote:
Claxon wrote:
thejeff wrote:

Welcome to live pretty much anywhere before the modern era, and still in a lot of places.

The point isn't that Cheliax is wonderful, it's that it's surprisingly not awful for a country run by devils. And that there are plenty of worse places in Golarion.

Exactly, thank you! You get what I'm trying to say.

Yes, s%%# can be bad for certain individuals. But UnArcaneElection was focusing too much on individual outcomes and not the whole.
{. . .}

Not just individuals (although when bad stuff happens to a lot of individuals, it adds up), but also whole demographic groups (including but almost certainly not limited to Halflings and Tieflings).

Maybe if you want to be treated like a human being, you should have been born as one. Stupid slips...


Nyerkh wrote:
As for the Geb discussion, iirc there are both living citizens and humanoid chattel, but those are are different, separate things.

I think you are right. Like there is a description of the city of Mechitar in the Mythic Realms book. I don't have it handy but I think the chattel (food source for vampires, ghouls and hungry-undead Geb leaders) were all confined to walled-off slum or something.

I can't remember if or how it described regular human citizens. So, if anyone has that book handy, that might answer the question.

Although the fact that the city is reserved for a book like Mythic Realms suggests it's not all that friendly to regular folk!

Scarab Sages

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Worst quality of life? Razmiran. Not only are you in an evil dictatorship (like Cheliax), you can disappear at any time (like Galt), can be accosted by the powerful at will (like Belkzen), and likely can never move away with any of your possessions (likely seized at the border for emigration tributes).

Worst for your health? Alkenstar. Not only do you live in a magical wasteland complete with toxic mutants, you have industrial revolution air pollution to deal with.


So its not a unified country anymore, but Iobaria sounds horrible. Barbarians, monsters, dragons, constant plagues... if you somehow manage to live a full life you've probably watched your friends and family die over, and over, and over.


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Claxon wrote:


Haladir wrote:

Top 10 worst Inner Sea places to live...

10. Hermea
...

I have to ask, why does Hermea make the list?

I've haven't played an AP which involves them, but aside from their description of an Authoritarian Dictatorship which limits your free will, it sounds like a very safe place for individuals to live, providing good potential for personal growth.

I don't believe any adventures have been written that were set in Hemmea. Partly that was due to a fundamental disagreement about the nature of the place between James Jacobs and James Sutter. The Directorsaur saw it as a horrifying place and Sutter saw it as problematic, but mostly positive. By the time Sutter left Paizo, there were much bigger fish to fry, and I don't think that it's really come up since.

To me, Hermea seems to be one of those places that appears to be a paradise, but that façade hides deeper ugly truths. It's a lot like Plato's Repuiblic: Rule by enlightened philosopher-kings who dictacte every aspect of the the lives of their subjects. It's all for their own good, after all: You can't expect common folk to understand the deep complexities of how to live a proper life. So we will make all of their decisions for them: What carrer to follow, which dwelling to live in, who to marry, how many children to raise.

I see Hermea as a Potemkin village where the seemingly benevolent dragon Mengkare acts as sole dictator of every aspect of all citizens' lives. Conform or be cast out. Do what we tell you. Repeat what you're told. Think only pure thoughts. Don't step out of line. Love your benevolent ruler Mengkare.

If you conform, you shall reap the reward of living in paradise. If you don't... we won't hurt you. You will just never see anything or anyone you care about ever again. And if you try to come back... THEN we'll kill you.

I see Hermea as a place of beautiful, tranquil horror.


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From what I've read Mengkare isn't that hands on. He's the final authority, but the elected Council of Enlightenment handles all the day-to-day stuff.

But I'm biased because I don't want Menkgare to just be some boring, lawful evil villain. I'm fine if Paizo decides he's LN, but I'll be really disappointed if he's evil.


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Haladir wrote:
Claxon wrote:


Haladir wrote:

Top 10 worst Inner Sea places to live...

10. Hermea
...

I have to ask, why does Hermea make the list?

I've haven't played an AP which involves them, but aside from their description of an Authoritarian Dictatorship which limits your free will, it sounds like a very safe place for individuals to live, providing good potential for personal growth.

I don't believe any adventures have been written that were set in Hemmea. Partly that was due to a fundamental disagreement about the nature of the place between James Jacobs and James Sutter. The Directorsaur saw it as a horrifying place and Sutter saw it as problematic, but mostly positive. By the time Sutter left Paizo, there were much bigger fish to fry, and I don't think that it's really come up since.

To me, Hermea seems to be one of those places that appears to be a paradise, but that façade hides deeper ugly truths. It's a lot like Plato's Repuiblic: Rule by enlightened philosopher-kings who dictacte every aspect of the the lives of their subjects. It's all for their own good, after all: You can't expect common folk to understand the deep complexities of how to live a proper life. So we will make all of their decisions for them: What carrer to follow, which dwelling to live in, who to marry, how many children to raise.

I see Hermea as a Potemkin village where the seemingly benevolent dragon Mengkare acts as sole dictator of every aspect of all citizens' lives. Conform or be cast out. Do what we tell you. Repeat what you're told. Think only pure thoughts. Don't step out of line. Love your benevolent ruler Mengkare.

If you conform, you shall reap the reward of living in paradise. If you don't... we won't hurt you. You will just never see anything or anyone you care about ever again. And if you try to come back... THEN we'll kill you.

I see Hermea as a place of beautiful, tranquil horror.

Not a great place certainly, but even in that interpretation, not as bad as the more open dictatorships. Even benevolent dictatorships suck, but the benevolence does make a difference.


The Guy With A Face wrote:

From what I've read Mengkare isn't that hands on. He's the final authority, but the elected Council of Enlightenment handles all the day-to-day stuff.

But I'm biased because I don't want Menkgare to just be some boring, lawful evil villain. I'm fine if Paizo decides he's LN, but I'll be really disappointed if he's evil.

Alternatively, what about Mengkare himself actually trying to do the right thing? . . . But the nature of human(oid) dictatorships being what they are, it keeps inevitably going awry, but he's bound(*) to try to see it through even though it is impossible to have it ever go right.

(*)Maybe even having been outright tricked into this bondage by Hell.

Silver Crusade

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James Jacobs just confirmed that Mengkare isn't LG and that more info about Hermea is on the horizon, so there's that.


^Actually, that isn't mutually exclusive with what I posted above -- he could have started out Lawful Good and gotten entrapped into a damned quest . . . .


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I think Greg and Dean Wormer say it best...

My personal horror shows?

Putting aside places that don't really gel with our idea of an actual nation-state (The Worldwound, the Sodden Lands, arguably the Hold of Belkezen, the Mana Wastes [Alkenstar excepted, there doesn't seem to be much oversight out there], and so on):

Galt. Government by accusation, soul-trapping blades, nobody really seems to have an actual plan the bloodshed never ends, and no one is truly safe.

Isger. The place is a wreck, and is now falling ever more thoroughly under Chelish influence, seeing its former independence slip away. Everyone else seems to have their own problems. No sense of control over the destiny of your nation, since the Goblinblood Wars essentially broke its back. You have personal freedoms, which you witness erode as Chelish influence continues to grow, and there doesn't seem to be any way to stave it off. This one rates highly for me not because of what it is, but for what it's becoming while its citizens observe, helpless to stop it.

Honorable mentions to:

Razmiran, Cheliax, Nidal, Irrisen, Geb, Numeria, Rahadoum. While each has traits to make living there absolutely atrocious for varying chunks of the population, each has the advantage of there being a "right sort" to be to avoid the bad stuff. While that inequality contributes to the horror, there is little denying that life in, say, Geb, isn't so bad if you're lucky enough.


I'd argue Galt is not much of a state either at that point, but very much agreed.
That the Galtian take on the Terror hasn't slowed down in 50+ years is just unnatural. There's a reason the french inspiration lasted one to two years at worst. If I didn't know better, I'd suspect outside influence here.

Isger isn't great, but it's "just" a failing country and the quintessential vassal state : it only exists for the convenience of its neighbours.
The only thing preventing Cheliax from annexing it is that it's not worth the effort, or the trouble.
In the grand scope of things, it's a sad story, a broken nation who once had everything it needed to succeed, but it doesn't make my "top ten worse places". I could see it though.

Speaking of colonies, Sargava can't be a great place either. A lot going on there, not much of it good.


^Even on Earth, we have had countries in Reign of Terror in all but name for much longer periods, some in very recent times. With Golarions 10(?)X slower social evolution, Galt doesn't even approach the theoretical maximum. No Irriseni interference required.


Actually, we have spun up a grand conspiracy theory that the Galtan unrest is powering and covering up a dark ritual more than just the obvious soul taking guilotenes. Unfortunate characters that start to work it out often do poorly.


Long lasting reigns of terror in this world are generally where societal collapse is prolonged by external sources well meant or not.

Radiant Oath

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Nyerkh wrote:

I'd argue Galt is not much of a state either at that point, but very much agreed.

That the Galtian take on the Terror hasn't slowed down in 50+ years is just unnatural. There's a reason the french inspiration lasted one to two years at worst. If I didn't know better, I'd suspect outside influence here.

I have my suspicions of that as well, and a hypothesis as to just what's keeping it that way and why...


Daw wrote:
Long lasting reigns of terror in this world are generally where societal collapse is prolonged by external sources well meant or not.

Yes, but some of them manage to prolong themselves without outside help, even if some of them needed outside help to get started.


Haladir wrote:

Top 10 worst Inner Sea places to live...

10. Hermea
9. Sodden Lands
8. Galt
7. Razmiran
6. Hold of Belkzen
5. Irrisen
4. Nidal
3. The Darklands
2. Geb
1. The Worldwound

Cheliax doesn't make the list!

Does the Worldwound even count as a country? Yes it has a few cities (mostly formerly Mendevian cities) but they are all occupied by demons and their mortal worshippers afaik.


Yea, compared to Nidal, Cheliax is pretty tame and while both are lawful; only one basically has pain-inflicting cenobite's in power. Go ahead and try to run away into the woods, too...

Top of my list (considering places where there is a government) would be a three-way tie: Geb, Galt & Nidal.

Dark Archive

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Archpaladin Zousha wrote:
Nyerkh wrote:

I'd argue Galt is not much of a state either at that point, but very much agreed.

That the Galtian take on the Terror hasn't slowed down in 50+ years is just unnatural. There's a reason the french inspiration lasted one to two years at worst. If I didn't know better, I'd suspect outside influence here.
I have my suspicions of that as well, and a hypothesis as to just what's keeping it that way and why...

Daemons in some way tied to the Final Blades is my theory, although I would not be surprised that if some nobles in Cheliax find the continued unrest in Galt to be convenient as a boogeyman to scare their own population and keep them embracing the security that comes with their own infernally-enforced order.


^ . . . and I wouldn't put it past the nobles in Cheliax to use Daemons for their own purposes, including giving a bit of technical assistance to the magic-item-producing wings of certain Galtan factions.


Sarkoris would be the worst country to live in on Golarion. Because we all know what Sarkoris turned into.

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