What is this "running fight" some people speak of?

[Mark Hoover 330]

I'm not being tongue in cheek here, I really want to know how to motivate one of these happening in my game. I have a megadungeon campaign coming up soon - tons of open hallway or multi-exit chamber spaces, enough monsters to provide threat, enough empty area for movement between the party and their foes.

I just wonder how.

The mechanics of this game are such that reliable Stealth-vs-Perception checks, from both the party or their enemies, occur at 60' or less; most decently buffed Ranged attacks and Ranged Touch attacks at low to mid levels are at 30'; Melee is obviously adjacent. If enemies are within 60', make a ranged attack and try to flee, PCs can generally take a Run action to risk AoOs, get up to within Melee and thus obliterate their enemies the following round.

The only 2 scenarios that makes sense in my brain for the fight to occur "on the run," i.e. one side or the other has to continue making more than one Move action to keep pace with or catch up to their foes over multiple rounds, are as follows:

1. The PCs encounter a significantly more powerful foe: if 4 level 1 PCs come around a hall corner and spot 3 Goblin Warrior 1 enemies hiding in the shadows 40' away with bows, this fight will be over in 2 rounds of boring melee. If however the same party comes around the corner to see a Young Red Dragon/CR 10 in the distance, I'm guessing they're sprinting for the exit and a "running fight" or probably a Chase scene occurs.

2. The terrain favors the enemy: a group of 4 level 1 PCs happening upon a vertical shaft 40' up or down and 60' around, guarded by 4 mites and 3 giant beetles. There are ropes or ladders, the PCs can try and climb if they'd like, or make Ranged attacks, so they can get the McGuffin at the top while defeating their enemies. The party will have to move up through the gauntlet if, rushing up behind them is some motivating factor like beetle swarms, rushing water, etc.

Otherwise almost every combat in my games is static. Players affix their PCs on the battle map, moving only for tactical advantage. If an enemy attempts to flee, since PC melee capability is usually weighted slightly higher than enemy AC, said enemies are generally cut to ribbons if they disengage.

How do I pull this off?

[LordKailas]

The only times I've seen this occur naturally is when the following is true:

*The encounter is not something the characters feel they can go toe to toe with (they risk being overwhelmed and/or overpowered).

*The group has access to a vehicle of some sort, that is something only one PC has to spend any actions on in order to move the entire group.

Then the character who would normally be able to contribute the least to the combat is left driving, while everyone else pelts the enemy with ranged attacks while they try to get away. Without the second factor being involved you don't tend to get so much a running fight as you do one character with an instant escape ability, hanging behind to distract the encounter while everyone else just high tails it or gets into position to instant escape with said character.

[Mathmuse]

I have handled running fights so extreme that the Pathfinder rules don't handle it well. Thus, I asked for advice: Never String Out the Party! How should I handle a mile-long chase?

Most highly mobile battles take place outside. The party spots smoke in the distance, travels there, and reaches a burning village with bandits killing villagers. The bandits broke into groups to loot different houses, so the party has to keep moving to defeat all groups. The only danger is the bandits and the fire, and they need not fear traps.

Dungeons are different. The hallway could be trapped. A well-manned guardroom or a boss-level monster could be around the corner. If a goblin spotted down the hallway runs away, he is probably leading the party to a trap or a guardroom. Slow and stealthy is the way to proceed, and the battles end up pretty immobile, too.

[Cpt_kirstov]

If you look at most of the good uses of the chase mechanic, the options include the information.... "you enter a market square, you can cause a riot by disconnecting the horses from the cart on the hill(Strength), or you can duck into the tavern (stealth)" or " you follow the thief over a wall into a dinner party, you can try to spot him amount the guests (perception) or climb to the roof to get a better view and possibly clear shot (climb)"

Other things that can help are tanglefoot bags, concealing mist, full withdraw actions to disengage from melee

[Mark Hoover 330]

@ Double M McClover Picture: yeah, I never really run mass battles or chases which is likely why this hasn't come up in my games!

I tend to stick to rooms/scenes which are tailored to my players and their characters. Since we typically only game for about 2.5 to 4 hours a week I usually keep these encounters small and contained for ease of use. Also my players tend to be very tactical and mechanically inclined by which I mean strict rules folks.

On the outside occasion I put more than 2-4 enemies down over a large area of the battle mat the players go into analysis-paralysis mode and they focus fire quite effectively. This actually just came up in a session last week! Anyway, for all of these reasons I tend to avoid overwhelming them with waves of villains.

I think this would be hard for me to pull of as the GM as well. I mean, if there's 30 bandits and 4 PCs, and the party is able to segregate and destroy the first few bad guys with ease, I'd have to really avoid the temptation to have, say, 15 bandits suddenly swarm over the PCs. I bet this is also logistically challenging too, managing all the "moving parts" such as circumstantial bonuses, remembering if any enemy NPCs have spells or special effects to use, etc.

[Mark Hoover 330]

Cpt_kirstov wrote:

If you look at most of the good uses of the chase mechanic, the options include the information.... "you enter a market square, you can cause a riot by disconnecting the horses from the cart on the hill(Strength), or you can duck into the tavern (stealth)" or " you follow the thief over a wall into a dinner party, you can try to spot him amount the guests (perception) or climb to the roof to get a better view and possibly clear shot (climb)"

Other things that can help are tanglefoot bags, concealing mist, full withdraw actions to disengage from melee

The Withdraw action - this is a tough bit of rules to swallow. The enemy uses a Full Round action to move up to double move, with the first square you leave not considered Threatened so no AoO's. Except there's the provision that the REST of the board you pass through can still be threatened.

My players are pretty savvy. They usually surround tough melee targets and at least one of my front liners likes to cover the fight with a Reach weapon. There is rarely a place for the enemy to go where they're NOT threatened.

Also they only move up to double move. If the bad guy moves 30' then they only Withdraw 60'. The PCs can double move, even Charge attack and still get to the foe; the ranged PC can move 30' and attack from 30' gaining all their best benefits on said ranged attack. A PC could even risk AoOs themselves and speed AHEAD of the enemy with a Run action to cut off their retreat.

I've only had a couple successful Withdraw actions. Either the enemy moves over/through terrain the PCs can't/won't traverse like squeezing through a Tiny sized opening, diving into water with a Swim speed or moving up a cavern wall with a Climb speed, or another enemy uses some special effect like Obscuring Mist or Entangle to block the party's opportunity to follow.