Quick Maneuver feats and 'Highest Base Attack Bonus'


Rules Questions


Quick Dirty Trick:
You can perpetrate a dirty trick and deliver an attack before your opponent is the wiser.

Prerequisites: Int 13, Combat Expertise, Improved Dirty Trick, base attack bonus +6.

Benefit: On your turn, you can perform a single dirty trick combat maneuver (Advanced Players Guide 320) in place of one of your melee attacks. You must choose the melee attack with the highest base attack bonus to make the dirty trick combat maneuver.

Normal: A dirty trick combat maneuver is a standard action.

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Alright, so for most characters the attack with the highest BAB means their first attack. However, let's say I'm a hasted Unchained Monk.

Haste:
When making a full attack action, a hasted creature may make one extra attack with one natural or manufactured weapon. The attack is made using the creature’s full base attack bonus, plus any modifiers appropriate to the situation.

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Unchained Monk Flurry:
At 1st level, a monk can make a flurry of blows as a full-attack action. When making a flurry of blows, the monk can make one additional attack at his highest base attack bonus. This additional attack stacks with the bonus attacks from haste and other similar effects.

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Now I have (at least) three attacks that are made with my highest BAB.

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1) Do I need to make a full-attack to use Quick Dirty Trick, or would any melee attack made at my highest BAB work?
(Such as the attack during a charge, or the Free Hand Maneuver weapon trick.)

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2) Is there a limit to how many times I can use a Quick 'Maneuver' feat per round?

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3) Would I be able to use both the Quick Dirty Trick and the Quick Steal feats during the same full-attack, replacing two different full-BAB attacks?


You can only do one Quick Dirty Trick per round due to the wording "can perform a single dirty trick maneuver."


1) Any attack you make during your turn, so long as that attack is at your best bonus.

2) It says it can only be used 'a single' time.

3) Yes, so long as both attacks were at your best it should be fine.


roguerouge wrote:
You can only do one Quick Dirty Trick per round due to the wording "can perform a single dirty trick maneuver."
Meirril wrote:
2) It says it can only be used 'a single' time.

Oh. Yeah that makes sense. The parenthesis in the first sentence messed up the emphasis of "single" for me.

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Meirril wrote:
1) Any attack you make during your turn, so long as that attack is at your best bonus.

Great, that opens up the option of Swift Action maneuvers!

As maneuvers are 'melee attacks', I could switch out a Disarm maneuver for a Dirty Trick maneuver, correct?


Wonderstell wrote:
roguerouge wrote:
You can only do one Quick Dirty Trick per round due to the wording "can perform a single dirty trick maneuver."
Meirril wrote:
2) It says it can only be used 'a single' time.

Oh. Yeah that makes sense. The parenthesis in the first sentence messed up the emphasis of "single" for me.

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Meirril wrote:
1) Any attack you make during your turn, so long as that attack is at your best bonus.

Great, that opens up the option of Swift Action maneuvers!

As maneuvers are 'melee attacks', I could switch out a Disarm maneuver for a Dirty Trick maneuver, correct?

I disagree. While the wording lets you substitute a best BAB attack with explicitly allowed maneuver, it doesn't say anything about substituting one maneuver for another. Considering that the action economy for maneuvers aren't considered even I think the conclusion is flawed and I wouldn't allow it.

In other words, attacks can be made into specifically allowed maneuvers by feats, but that doesn't make those maneuvers equal to an attack action, or any other action.


Wonderstell wrote:
As maneuvers are 'melee attacks', I could switch out a Disarm maneuver for a Dirty Trick maneuver, correct?

I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. Disarm was already allowed to replace a melee attack (in the same way that you can replace a melee attack with quick dirty trick). If f you're trying to get a dirty trick and a disarm in the same turn then yes you can. If there's some special ability that lets you get a free disarm or something then probably not.


MrCharisma wrote:
Wonderstell wrote:
As maneuvers are 'melee attacks', I could switch out a Disarm maneuver for a Dirty Trick maneuver, correct?

I'm not quite sure what you mean by this.

/.../
If there's some special ability that lets you get a free disarm or something then probably not.

I'm mostly just probing for which 'Full-BAB Melee Attacks' are acceptable options for the feat.

If other maneuvers were, then it would be easier to sneak in the Quick Manuever into attack routines.

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Meirril wrote:

I disagree. While the wording lets you substitute a best BAB attack with explicitly allowed maneuver, it doesn't say anything about substituting one maneuver for another. Considering that the action economy for maneuvers aren't considered even I think the conclusion is flawed and I wouldn't allow it.

In other words, attacks can be made into specifically allowed maneuvers by feats, but that doesn't make those maneuvers equal to an attack action, or any other action.

Yeah, point taken. I don't think the feat intended for something like that, anyway.

And since Disarm/Trip/Sunder are made 'in place of a melee attack', it's implied that they themselves aren't "melee attacks". Even though they are "attacks made in melee".

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