Mitigate


Vanguard


MITIGATE (EX) 2nd Level wrote:
As a reaction when you take damage, you can spend 1 Entropy Point to reduce the damage you take by an amount equal to your vanguard level. If you do, you can’t gain any Entropy Points from that attack. You can’t reduce damage to less than 0 with this ability.

Mmmmm, yeah...

Does anyone see this ability being used any? You're using an EP to negate getting an EP and also shaving just a bit of damage off.

What are some ways to improve it? Turn it into a Stamina Fast Healing ability instead for a certain number of rounds?


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I see this being used to avoid dipping into HP. You accumulate EPs early in combat from taking hits to your beefy stamina (and using your 4th level Aspect Embodiment), you mitigate later in combat if you have some EPs left, you don't have an offensive option you want, and you don't want to use up healing resources by going into HP damage.

The real question is given that mitigate is a free ability why you would spend a discipline slot on Flatten Bullets, which also costs EP and a reaction, but only sometimes works (Fort save, which admittedly you're awesome at), only works if you're carrying/wearing appropriate equipment, only works on kinetic damage, and then just gives you half damage vs. level off. Half damage will often be better, but is it worth the hassle and the rare application?


I see Flatten Bullets being vastly more useful than Mitigate, due to Mitigate's low numbers compared to how high damage can get.


Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
I see Flatten Bullets being vastly more useful than Mitigate, due to Mitigate's low numbers compared to how high damage can get.

How often are you shot by bullets rather than struck in melee or shot by energy? Are you going for a light armor build and not carrying a shield? Then you can't use this.

Mitigate is free, always works, and works against all damage types.

The chance of success on the Flatten Bullets check plunges as you go up in level. Level 4 is a DC 16, with a likely Fort bonus of +8-9, so 65-70% success. At 10th level it's a DC 25, your Fort save bonus is probably +13-14, so 50-55%. A CR 20 shooting you would have a DC of 40. Your Fort save bonus is going to be +21 at best, so perfectly optimized you only have a 10% chance of success.

Multiply the chance of success by the half damage to get your expected value and compare that to always successful 2xlevel of Mitigate. You'd have to be a fool to invest discipline in Flatten Bullets unless you're in a weird bullets only campaign.


Xenocrat wrote:
Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
I see Flatten Bullets being vastly more useful than Mitigate, due to Mitigate's low numbers compared to how high damage can get.

How often are you shot by bullets rather than struck in melee or shot by energy? Are you going for a light armor build and not carrying a shield? Then you can't use this.

Mitigate is free, always works, and works against all damage types.

The chance of success on the Flatten Bullets check plunges as you go up in level. Level 4 is a DC 16, with a likely Fort bonus of +8-9, so 65-70% success. At 10th level it's a DC 25, your Fort save bonus is probably +13-14, so 50-55%. A CR 20 shooting you would have a DC of 40. Your Fort save bonus is going to be +21 at best, so perfectly optimized you only have a 10% chance of success.

Multiply the chance of success by the half damage to get your expected value and compare that to always successful 2xlevel of Mitigate. You'd have to be a fool to invest discipline in Flatten Bullets unless you're in a weird bullets only campaign.

Enough to warrant Flatten Bullets being more valuable than Mitigate currently. Are other powers more valuable than FB though? Absolutely, it needs work, the armor/shield issue being the biggest thing atm.

Mitigate may be free in that you get the ability for free but it costs the same as FB in EP. And it always works but the effect is so minimal will it even get used though?

The numbers is another big issue that needs to be looked at for FB.

Just so we're clear, I'm not hyping FB as an awesome ability, currently it and Mitigate are both bad. Mitigate is just badd-er.


My 8th level playtest character is currently packing Flatten Bullets, Dampen, and Energize, on the theory that I'll want to just take all the damage in the world until my 120 Stamina gets low, at which point I'll have a lot of EP and not want to start taking hit point damage. In those circumstances I can see using Mitigate if my other abilities don't kick in.

Paizo Employee Starfinder Design Lead

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The DC math on flatten bullets is wrong.
It currently is using the math for a skill check, which cannot be swapped out for saving throws for exactly the reasons Xenocrat mentions.
I suspect the final DC if the ability survives playtesting will be 10 + CR or item level of attack, but regardless it will be changed from what it is now.
That said, the playtest rules are the playtest rules, for the moment.

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