Iconic?


Vanguard


(sorry if they already mentioned what they were.)

If not, I recommend Vlaka (guardian) or Ganzi (entropy).

I also recommend adding the Ganzi to the game :3


Non-core races seems very unlikely. Especially those from other systems not present in the Pact Worlds in significant numbers.


Bah-humbug.


Thinking more on this, I don't believe Starfinder has to worry about the Core Race thing like Pathfinder did, their whole thing seems to be the opposite even, "Look at all the things you can play as!"

In Pathfinder you have the standard fantasy races and so people unfamiliar can still guess them, "uh, humans, elves, orcs, dwarves, hobbits," etc, whereas with Starfinder we have an android, a rat person, a lizard person, and a bug person representing the core. Having a dog person or chaos infused human isn't really gonna mess with the established presentation.


It’s going to mess with connecting to them and associating them to the setting. Everyone knows what the core races are. Relatively few obsessively read every extra race option in other books.


Someone unfamiliar with Starfinder would not know what the Core races are, and the Vlaka are from Alien Archive 2, not an AP issue (for the purposes of just being an Iconic you don't need their stats anyway).

As for connecting to them THEY'RE A SPACEWOOF, that ain't hard at all :3

If instead we got Ganzi into the system they're a human with chaos aesthetics so not that jarring.


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Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:

Thinking more on this, I don't believe Starfinder has to worry about the Core Race thing like Pathfinder did, their whole thing seems to be the opposite even, "Look at all the things you can play as!"

I agree with Rysky. A Vlaka Vanguard would be pretty cool, and a cantina feel to the iconics improves Starfinder more than it detracts.


Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:

Someone unfamiliar with Starfinder would not know what the Core races are, and the Vlaka are from Alien Archive 2, not an AP issue (for the purposes of just being an Iconic you don't need their stats anyway).

Someone unfamiliar with Starfinder wouldn't be buying the book the new classes are in. Paizo is best served by them flipping open the book and recognizing the species art being used. This is especially true for the people who get mad at setting material, who won't want to see yet more Paizo created species that don't exist in their campaign world being forced down their throat.

Chances of non-core iconics are negligible.


Xenocrat wrote:
Someone unfamiliar with Starfinder wouldn't be buying the book the new classes are in.
And making the Iconic Vangaurd a Vesk would make them buy it?
Quote:
Paizo is best served by them flipping open the book and recognizing the species art being used.
People familiar with Starfinder would recognize them, people unfamiliar wouldn't even if the Iconic was a Vesk or a Shirren. And again, you'd be getting the book for the class, not the race.
Quote:
This is especially true for the people who get mad at setting material, who won't want to see yet more Paizo created species that don't exist in their campaign world being forced down their throat.
... you mean like what's already happened in the Core book? They wouldn't have any races at all then aside from ones they make themselves and humans. Also Vanguard isn't race locked. You're not required to have them all be Vlaka.
Quote:
Chances of non-core iconics are negligible.

What makes this so set in stone? Starfinder is a brand new and quickly expanding system, with brand new races. Where is this "everything has to be exactly like this" coming from? I certainly don't want any more human Iconics.


GM OfAnything wrote:
Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:

Thinking more on this, I don't believe Starfinder has to worry about the Core Race thing like Pathfinder did, their whole thing seems to be the opposite even, "Look at all the things you can play as!"

I agree with Rysky. A Vlaka Vanguard would be pretty cool, and a cantina feel to the iconics improves Starfinder more than it detracts.

Yesssss, bring on the Cantina!


It's more likely that the iconics for these will be Legacy races. We don't have any elf, dwarf, halfling, gnome, half-elf, or half-orc iconics yet.


Dracomicron wrote:
It's more likely that the iconics for these will be Legacy races. We don't have any elf, dwarf, halfling, gnome, half-elf, or half-orc iconics yet.

There's a good possibility of that happening, though I hope not.


Dracomicron wrote:
It's more likely that the iconics for these will be Legacy races. We don't have any elf, dwarf, halfling, gnome, half-elf, or half-orc iconics yet.

I'd think it more likely that they would be pact worlds races.


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Watch us all be wrong and it be a Brethedan.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

A Dwarf Vanguard makes sense. Especially since several people have mentioned the shield-wielding dwarf on page 9 of the CRB.


Jasque wrote:
A Dwarf Vanguard makes sense. Especially since several people have mentioned the shield-wielding dwarf on page 9 of the CRB.

Bah-humbug.

XD

More seriously, I don't think I'd want it to be a dwarf. Dwarven Defender has kinda always been their thing. Let's try something else for Starfinder.


Garretmander wrote:
Dracomicron wrote:
It's more likely that the iconics for these will be Legacy races. We don't have any elf, dwarf, halfling, gnome, half-elf, or half-orc iconics yet.
I'd think it more likely that they would be pact worlds races.

Why do you think that?

Legacy races are Society legal without a boon now; Pact Worlds races need boons and are still pretty rare out in the wild.

There are some excellent options for these three among the Legacies.

Elves have Dex/Int and would make great Studious Biohackers.

Dwarves have Con/Wis and might be pretty good Vanguards, though probably better as melee Instictive Biohackers (free advanced weapon specialization would let them get full damage on an injection glove)

Halflings have Dex/Cha and are clearly proto-Witchwarpers already with their luck...

...though Feychild Gnomes with their Con/Cha might give them a run for their money because of their Eternal Hope.

I guess I'd give Vanguard to Half-Orc. They're good with similar skills and Ferocity meshes well with the theme of the class.


Dracomicron wrote:
Garretmander wrote:
Dracomicron wrote:
It's more likely that the iconics for these will be Legacy races. We don't have any elf, dwarf, halfling, gnome, half-elf, or half-orc iconics yet.
I'd think it more likely that they would be pact worlds races.

Why do you think that?

Avoiding offending the setting agnostic people is a business consideration for both Pathfinder and Starfinder. They've adopted more and more setting stuff, but the plus of expanding iconic races is that they make a few people happy who are going to buy the book regardless, and the negative is that they lose a few sales from people who decide that shoving more of Paizo's setting content in a rules supplement is the last straw. Plenty of people expressed their annoyance that they had to see ysoki and vesk in the core rulebook, putting even weirder stuff (a ratman and a lizardman are at least semi-generic concepts) in a rules supplement will further annoy them.

Legacy fantasy races don't help, as the same people often don't want excess fantasy in their sci-fi, either.


Xenocrat wrote:
Dracomicron wrote:
Garretmander wrote:
Dracomicron wrote:
It's more likely that the iconics for these will be Legacy races. We don't have any elf, dwarf, halfling, gnome, half-elf, or half-orc iconics yet.
I'd think it more likely that they would be pact worlds races.

Why do you think that?

Avoiding offending the setting agnostic people is a business consideration for both Pathfinder and Starfinder. They've adopted more and more setting stuff, but the plus of expanding iconic races is that they make a few people happy who are going to buy the book regardless, and the negative is that they lose a few sales from people who decide that shoving more of Paizo's setting content in a rules supplement is the last straw. Plenty of people expressed their annoyance that they had to see ysoki and vesk in the core rulebook, putting even weirder stuff (a ratman and a lizardman are at least semi-generic concepts) in a rules supplement will further annoy them.

Legacy fantasy races don't help, as the same people often don't want excess fantasy in their sci-fi, either.

...is that really a thing? I mean, Starfinder is science fantasy; there are already magic and half-orcs and elves and halflings all over the books as it stands.

If they don't want fantasy in your sci-fi, why are you playing what amounts to D&D in space?

The main people who will run into iconics will be SFS players, anyway, and they don't have much choice in the matter. If non-Society people object to the iconic art including races from Paizo's blockbuster legacy game, without which there would be no Starfinder, I say, "tough cookies."


There are a substantial minority of people who buy Starfinder (and to a greater extent Pathfinder) for the rules, but hate or at least don't care for the setting. They expressed a great deal of annoyance that the core book included the core races and Pact Worlds setting chapters. They also hated Golarion stuff in Pathfinder hardcovers and weren't always thrilled about racial stuff since they homebrew their own races.

It's brave of you to offend part of Paizo's market and cost them money so that you can get what you want.


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Xenocrat wrote:
Dracomicron wrote:
Garretmander wrote:
Dracomicron wrote:
It's more likely that the iconics for these will be Legacy races. We don't have any elf, dwarf, halfling, gnome, half-elf, or half-orc iconics yet.
I'd think it more likely that they would be pact worlds races.

Why do you think that?

Avoiding offending the setting agnostic people is a business consideration for both Pathfinder and Starfinder. They've adopted more and more setting stuff, but the plus of expanding iconic races is that they make a few people happy who are going to buy the book regardless, and the negative is that they lose a few sales from people who decide that shoving more of Paizo's setting content in a rules supplement is the last straw. Plenty of people expressed their annoyance that they had to see ysoki and vesk in the core rulebook, putting even weirder stuff (a ratman and a lizardman are at least semi-generic concepts) in a rules supplement will further annoy them.

Who is person that will pass on a book because the art shows a dog-alien instead of a lizard-alien? I would understand if the decision somehow affected page-space or rules content, but it doesn't. It's just the art.


Yes, pretty weird for someone to make commercial decisions based on aesthetics or arbitrary preferences.


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I'm just saying there are probably more "Is the art in this book pretty/interesting enough for me to buy a hardcopy to look at?" people than there are people turned off by slug-alien art in their rulebooks.

Paizo Employee Starfinder Design Lead

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Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:

(sorry if they already mentioned what they were.)

We haven't announced the iconics for the new classes yet. :)

The Character Operations manual is a LONG way off. The down side of that is there's lots of stuff still in process we can't show you for months and months yet.

The up side is that we have time to run the playtest, consider the feedback, and create better classes to ultimately appear in the book.


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Xenocrat wrote:

There are a substantial minority of people who buy Starfinder (and to a greater extent Pathfinder) for the rules, but hate or at least don't care for the setting. They expressed a great deal of annoyance that the core book included the core races and Pact Worlds setting chapters. They also hated Golarion stuff in Pathfinder hardcovers and weren't always thrilled about racial stuff since they homebrew their own races.

It's brave of you to offend part of Paizo's market and cost them money so that you can get what you want.

...I don't actually care what races the iconics are; I'm just talking from a business and continuity sense. I'm actually one of the people you're talking about that likes the rules but doesn't care for the setting too much.

But guess what? I understand that branding is important, and I'm not going to speculate that Paizo is better off not utilizing their brand.

I've been gaming for 34 years, and I've played a lot of games based in settings that meant nothing to me. You know what I have always done? Ignored the parts that don't apply to me. I get that there are probably some delicate snowflakes out there that don't want to see pretend character art in a pretend game that offends their delicate sensibilities. They are a tiny minority that should absolutely not be catered to. Everyone has better things to do with their time, and Paizo has a business to run.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Xenocrat wrote:

There are a substantial minority of people who buy Starfinder (and to a greater extent Pathfinder) for the rules, but hate or at least don't care for the setting. They expressed a great deal of annoyance that the core book included the core races and Pact Worlds setting chapters. They also hated Golarion stuff in Pathfinder hardcovers and weren't always thrilled about racial stuff since they homebrew their own races.

It's brave of you to offend part of Paizo's market and cost them money so that you can get what you want.

Why are you ignoring the other substantial minority: the people who love Paizo's setting material but are perhaps more skeptical on their game mechanics? What makes you think they are impossible to "offend"?


Deviantart and Tumblr are fulfilling their needs, not Paizo's official art buried in a rulebook.

Paizo Employee Starfinder Design Lead

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Hey folks, the question of the business case for various iconics is not really a class playtest issue. Let's not get any more off-topic in the playtest forums.

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