Vanguard's Entropic Strikes should benefit from solarion weapon crystals


Vanguard


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Title, pretty much. They have almost identical damage scaling and similar fluff, and it might help broaden both the utility of weapon crystals and how many different things you can do with a vanguard.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Entropic strike with crystals would, I think, be pretty far outside of the damage curve of every other operative melee weapon. I would not assume that to be the intended result.


Does that matter if it can't be stacked with Trick attack?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Well, SADness is also a benefit.

That being said, I don't claim to speak for developer intent and design principles. Seeing that entropic strike is always an operative weapon, it looked to me like it was not intended to do the kind of damage that a solar weapon can, but was supposed to be a lower damage class-granted attack.

I could be mistaken, but I would definitely play with it as is, before even thinking about adding a major damage increase.

EDIT: I do think that part of the reason operative weapons are lower damage is probably not about trick attack, but about DEX not being the only attack attribute anyone ever needs. It is possible that I am only projecting that intent.

Scarab Sages Starfinder Design Lead

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It would require a complete reworking of entropic strike. From the damage curve, to the EAC targeting, to the Con to damage, to adding Str as well at 10th level, to not needing a hand, to the fact you can add fusions and features from other melee weapons.
It is, game mechanically, radically different from solarian solar weapons.


Take a single level dip in Solarian. I'm pretty sure that solves the issue.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

That would not allow you to add crystal damage onto entropic strike, since entropic strike would replace the solar weapon's damage, crystal included.


Actually, as worded, can you use Solar Weapon with Entropic Strike? I mean, Solar weapon has no item level with which to compare against (although a solar weapon crystal does have an item level, its not a weapon that you can attack with, nor does Solar weapon inherit the crystal's item level).

Although if you can getting the benefits of the Soulfire fusion on a Solar weapon crystal transferred through from the Solar weapon to the Entropic strike could be amusing. At 11th level you would get to add Strength, Constitution and Charisma to your damage.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Quote:
You can also deliver an entropic strike with any melee weapon with which you are proficient or any shield that allows you to make unarmed attacks. When you do this, the attack acts as your entropic strike (targeting EAC, gaining the block and operative weapon special properties, and dealing the damage of your entropic strike). Your entropic strike is considered to be made of whatever material the weapon or shield is made of for the purposes of bypassing DR or creature weaknesses. If the melee weapon or shield is no more than 2 item levels below your vanguard level, you can also apply any weapon special property, critical hit effect, or weapon fusion the melee weapon or shield has to your entropic strike.

As this is written, the weapon does not need to be within 2 levels to use it with entropic strike, so you could entropic strike with a solar weapon. You do need the weapon to be no more than 2 levels below your vanguard level to apply any weapon special property, critical hit effect, or weapon fusion the melee weapon or shield has to your entropic strike.

The way this reads to me is that the solarian dip would only give you a solar weapon for flavor, because with the lack of an item level on the weapon itself, the entropic strike made with the solar weapon would not be able to gain anything that you couldn't do with an unarmed entropic strike.


Weapon crystals are weapons. They're in the weapon section of the equipment chapter, after all. They DO work with Entropic Strike, but they don't increase damage. Instead, you can use the special properties and critical hit effects of the crystal.

So a Vanguard/Solarian can use Entropic Strike through the stellar weapon, and if the weapon's crystal is within 2 levels of the vanguard level, you can add the crystal's effects (but not the damage).

Sovereign Court

So a 1-level dip into Solarian to be able to use weapon crystals, and then buy a weapon crystal that's more appropriate to your overall character level, and you're good to go?

Though to be honest, it's a far from powerful option. Solarian weapons are also on the banal end when it comes to weapon properties. Channeling entropic strike through a regular weapon with multiple properties is much more powerful.


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Ascalaphus wrote:

So a 1-level dip into Solarian to be able to use weapon crystals, and then buy a weapon crystal that's more appropriate to your overall character level, and you're good to go?

Though to be honest, it's a far from powerful option. Solarian weapons are also on the banal end when it comes to weapon properties. Channeling entropic strike through a regular weapon with multiple properties is much more powerful.

Correct. No crystals as of yet even give Reach or Throwing, which I believe are the most important traits to be able to give an Entropic Strike.

It isn't an overpowered, or particularly good, option. But you can do it.

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