Making an Aid Another Skill Monkey


Advice

Silver Crusade

So looking at randomly making a Aid another Skill monkey in PFS. I have 6 gm levels and about 29k to work with. This is what I came up with:

Spoiler:

Human (Keleshite) investigator (sleuth) 4/paladin (sacred shield) 2/swashbuckler (inspired blade) 1 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide 30, 56, 101, 125, Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Combat 65)
LG Medium humanoid (human)
Init +3; Senses Perception +10
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Defense
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AC 28, touch 12, flat-footed 27 (+12 armor, +1 Dex, +4 shield, +1 trait)
hp 60 (7 HD; 4d8+3d10+18)
Fort +10, Ref +11, Will +11; +2 bonus vs. poison
Defensive Abilities trap sense +1
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft. (20 ft. in armor)
Melee mwk rapier +9/+4 (1d6/18-20)
Special Attacks deed: run like hell, deeds (derring-do, opportune parry and riposte), panache (12), studied combat (+2, 4 rounds), studied strike +1d6
Paladin Spell-Like Abilities (CL 2nd; concentration +6)
At will—detect evil
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Statistics
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Str 10, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 18, Wis 10, Cha 18
Base Atk +6; CMB +6; CMD 17
Feats Bodyguard[APG], Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Extra Inspiration[ACG], Weapon Focus (rapier)
Traits adopted, defender of the society, helpful
Skills Acrobatics -1 (-5 to jump), Appraise +8, Bluff +8, Climb -2, Craft (alchemy) +9, Diplomacy +14, Disable Device +3, Disguise +8, Escape Artist -1, Handle Animal +8, Heal +4, Intimidate +8, Knowledge (arcana) +8, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +8, Knowledge (engineering) +8, Knowledge (geography) +8, Knowledge (history) +8, Knowledge (local) +8, Knowledge (nature) +9, Knowledge (nobility) +8, Knowledge (planes) +8, Knowledge (religion) +8, Linguistics +14, Perception +10, Perform (sing) +14, Profession (teacher) +4, Ride -1, Sense Motive +4, Sleight of Hand -1, Spellcraft +8, Stealth -1, Survival +1, Swim -2, Use Magic Device +8
Languages Abyssal, Aquan, Auran, Common, Hallit, Jistka, Kelish, Osiriani, Shoanti, Skald, Terran, Thassilonian, Tien
SQ bastion of good, deed: daring, deed: make it count, deed: opportunist evasion, deed: second chance, deed: sleuth's initiative, inspiration (9/day), inspired panache, investigator talent (effortless aid[ACG]), keen recollection, lay on hands 5/day (1d6), poison lore, sleuth's luck, trapfinding +2
Other Gear +3 benevolent full plate, +2 heavy wooden shield, mwk rapier, headband of alluring charisma +2, masterwork thieves' tools, 3,336 gp
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Special Abilities
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Bastion of Good (10 ft, 1/day) (Su) One foe does ½ dam to allies in aura, full to self, +4 deflect to AC.
Bodyguard Use an AoO to use aid another to improve an ally's AC.
Combat Expertise +/-2 Bonus to AC in exchange for an equal penalty to attack.
Combat Reflexes (2 AoO/round) Can make extra attacks of opportunity/rd, and even when flat-footed.
Deed: Daring (Ex) Spend 1 luck to add 1d6 to Acrobatics, Climb, Escape Artist, Fly, Ride, Swim check.
Deed: Make it Count (Ex) Spend 1 luck to apply talent you don't know when using inspired strike.
Deed: Opportunist Evasion (Ex) Spend 1 luck to take no damage after successful Reflex save.
Deed: Run Like Hell (Ex) Spend 1 luck point to gain a +20-foot bonus to speed for 1 minute.
Deed: Second Chance (Ex) Spend 1 luck to reroll an inspirationd die or daring deed die.
Deed: Sleuth's Initiative (Ex) While have luck, can use a free hand to draw ligt/1-hand melee weap as part of the initiative check.
Deeds
Detect Evil (At will) (Sp) You can use detect evil at will (as the spell).
Effortless Aid (Ex) Can use aid another as a move action, or use 1 inspiration for swift action.
Inspiration (+1d6, 9/day) (Ex) Use 1 point, +1d6 to trained skill or ability check. Use 2 points, to add to attack or save.
Inspired Panache (Ex) Gain no panache from killing blow, only from rapier crits.
Keen Recollection At 3rd level, an investigator can attempt all Knowledge skill checks untrained.
Lay on Hands (1d6 hit points, 5/day) (Su) As a standard action (swift on self), touch channels positive energy and applies mercies.
Panache (Ex) Gain a pool of points that are spent to fuel deeds, regained on light/piercing crit/killing blow.
Poison Lore (Ex) After 1 min can use Know to ID poisons, 1 min more to neutralize with Craft (alchemy).
Sleuth's Luck At 1st level, a sleuth gains a fluctuating pool of luck, measuring her ability to get out of scrapes. At the start of each day, a sleuth has a number of luck points equal to her Charisma modifier (minimum 1). Her luck goes up or down throughout the d
Studied Combat (+2, 4 rounds) (Ex) As a move action, study foe to gain bonus to att & dam for duration or until use studied strike.
Studied Strike +1d6 (Ex) As a free action on a melee hit, end studied combat vs. foe to add precision dam.
Trap Sense +1 (Ex) +1 bonus on reflex saves and AC against traps.
Trapfinding +2 Gain a bonus to find or disable traps, including magical ones.

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What it can do: a ridiculous amount of luck/panache, can use a move standard swift or aoo to aid another ac, the ac bonus provided is +7, my Aid another skill gives +4, and the bastion of good is great.
What I can't do: damage things

So all in all, this is built like a tank from a mmorpg. My questions are:

1. Is it good?
2. Changes? I know I can remove swashbuckler but that removes 8 luck/panache, I can go golden legionairre ( which is probably the end goal)
3. Is it not fun for PFS difficulty normally being on the low end to give multiple allies +7 ac?

Thanks for the feedback!


I'd definitely recommend you to allocate some resources to offense, and there's probably a need to rethink your build.
To make Aid Another worthwhile, you have to fulfill three conditions:

Amount, Action Economy, and Availability.

Your build increases bonus AC given, while also lowering the opportunity cost for doing so. What it lacks is a reliable way to actually give out that benefit.

You can only use Aid Another against a foe in melee combat with your ally, and you'll need to be in a position to make a melee attack to do so. Your allies won't benefit unless you're right next to the enemy, and the enemy is right next to them.

So at the moment, you'd only be able to give +7 to AC under very specific circumstances, and can't do anything against ranged attacks.

Example Tank Build:
Human, High Guardian Mutation Warrior Fighter 7 (strength focused)

1 Power Attack, Shake it Off
2 Defender's Reflexes, Combat Reflexes (B)
3 Mutagen, Bodyguard
5 Cut from the Air, Weapon Training +1
6 Advanced Weapon Training: Fighter's Tactics
7 Stick Together, Discovery: (Wings)

Gear:
Reach weapon and Gauntlet to threaten everything within 10 ft. You should probably try to get enlarged before fights, as that would prevent enemies with reach to avoid triggering Bodyguard.

Tactics:
Defenders Reflexes allows us to use your Strength modifier to calculate the number of extra AoOs from Combat Reflexes (around 7-8 total), which you'll use to:

Damage approaching foes.
Improve the AC of adjacent allies being attacking in melee combat. (Bodyguard)
Negate ranged attacks targeting yourself or adjacent allies. (Cut from the Air)

It's rather important to be adjacent to your allies, so positioning is key. And unless you used Stick Together, you still have all your actions left when it's your turn.

***

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Going back to your basic question about building around aid another, you might look at a halfling. They have a racial option that gives a bigger bonus when they aid. I believe it's called helpful.

Silver Crusade

Redelia wrote:
Going back to your basic question about building around aid another, you might look at a halfling. They have a racial option that gives a bigger bonus when they aid. I believe it's called helpful.

Taking the adopted trait allows you to take a racial trait (and gives you that trait). So my human here has adopted.

And yeah, probably better to not multiclass all over the place. I'll look at that human fighter mix.

Here is what I had for the golden legionnaire

Spoiler:
Aids #2
Half-elf cavalier (honor guard) 3/golden legionnaire 1/investigator (empiricist) 3 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide 30, 100, Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player's Guide 32, Pathfinder RPG Adventurer's Guide 66, Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Combat 37)
LG Medium humanoid (elf, human)
Init +2; Senses low-light vision; Perception +16
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Defense
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AC 33, touch 15, flat-footed 30 (+12 armor, +1 competence, +1 Dex, +2 dodge, +6 shield, +1 trait)
hp 62 (7 HD; 3d8+4d10+20)
Fort +8, Ref +7, Will +5; +2 vs. enchantments, +2 vs. fear
Defensive Abilities trap sense +1; Immune sleep
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft. (20 ft. in armor)
Melee mwk rapier +5/+0 (1d6+5/18-20)
Special Attacks challenge 1/day (+3 damage, gain DR 1/- vs. target), tactician 1/day (Shield Wall, 4 rds)
Investigator (Empiricist) Extracts Prepared (CL 3rd; concentration +7)
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Statistics
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Str 12, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 18, Wis 10, Cha 14
Base Atk +6; CMB +6; CMD 21
Feats Bodyguard[APG], Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Extra Inspiration[ACG], Legionnaires' Inspiration, Shield Wall[APG], Skill Focus (Diplomacy)
Traits adopted, defender of the society, helpful
Skills Acrobatics -8 (-12 to jump), Appraise +8, Climb -9, Craft (alchemy) +14 (+17 to create alchemical items), Diplomacy +15 (+17 to gather information (You can use your Intelligence Modifier instead of Charisma)), Disguise +6, Handle Animal +6, Heal +4, Intimidate +10, Knowledge (arcana) +8, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +8, Knowledge (engineering) +8, Knowledge (geography) +8, Knowledge (history) +8, Knowledge (local) +8, Knowledge (nature) +8, Knowledge (nobility) +8 (+9 to checks relating to the nobles or politics of your land), Knowledge (planes) +8, Knowledge (religion) +8, Linguistics +14, Perception +16, Perform (sing) +6, Profession (teacher) +4, Ride -8, Sense Motive +8, Spellcraft +8, Survival +4, Swim -9, Use Magic Device +11; Racial Modifiers +2 Perception, honor in all things
Languages Abyssal, Aquan, Auran, Common, Elven, Hallit, Jistka, Osiriani, Shoanti, Skald, Terran, Thassilonian, Tien
SQ alchemy (alchemy crafting +3), authoritative command, ceaseless observation, defy danger (fear), elf blood, inspiration (8/day), intercept, investigator talent (effortless aid[ACG]), keen recollection, mount (Animal Companion), order of the black daimyo, sworn defense, trapfinding +1
Other Gear +3 benevolent full plate, +2 tower shield, mwk rapier, headband of vast intelligence +2, 3,413 gp
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Special Abilities
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Alchemy +3 (Su) +3 to Craft (Alchemy) to create alchemical items, can Id potions by touch.
Animal Companion Link (Ex) Handle or push Animal Companion faster, +4 to checks vs. them.
Authoritative Command (+1/3 allies) (Ex) As move action, give you & allies bonus to attack, damage, saves, AC.
Black Daimyo's Challenge +3 (1/day) (Ex) +3 to damage target, -2 AC vs. others when used, DR 1/- vs. attacks from challenge target.
Bodyguard Use an AoO to use aid another to improve an ally's AC.
Ceaseless Observation (Ex) Use INT instead of CHA for gather information (+2)
Combat Expertise +/-2 Bonus to AC in exchange for an equal penalty to attack.
Combat Reflexes (3 AoO/round) Can make extra attacks of opportunity/rd, and even when flat-footed.
Defy Danger (Fear) +2 (Ex) +2 to save vs. fear.
Effortless Aid (Ex) Can use aid another as a move action, or use 1 inspiration for swift action.
Elf Blood Half-elves count as both elves and humans for any effect related to race.
Elven Immunities - Sleep You are immune to magic sleep effects.
Honor in All Things (1/day) (Ex) Gain +4 morale bonus to Save or Skill check.
Inspiration (+1d6, 8/day) (Ex) Use 1 point, +1d6 to trained skill or ability check. Use 2 points, to add to attack or save.
Intercept Increase AC bonus granted to ally from aid another by +1.
Keen Recollection At 3rd level, an investigator can attempt all Knowledge skill checks untrained.
Legionnaires' Inspiration (2 rounds, 3/day) As std act, grant all allies within 60' that can hear you a +1 morale bonus to AC.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in dim light, distinguishing color and detail.
Mount (Ex) Gain the services of a special animal companion.
Shield Wall +2 to shield bonus if adj ally with same feat has a tower/heavy shield or +1 for smaller shields.
Sworn Defense (Ex) Select a ward during a challange, sacrificing AC to grant bonus to ward's AC.
Tactician (Shield Wall, 4 rds, 1/day) (Ex) Grant the use of one of your teamwork bonus feats to all allies within 30 ft.
Trap Sense +1 (Ex) +1 bonus on reflex saves and AC against traps.
Trapfinding +1 Gain a bonus to find or disable traps, including magical ones.

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This one still has no combat capabilities, but seemed fun.

I'll look into that thing you posted


Heathwool wrote:

And yeah, probably better to not multiclass all over the place. I'll look at that human fighter mix.

Here is what I had for the golden legionnaire

** spoiler omitted **

This one still has no combat capabilities, but seemed fun.

There's no problem with multiclassing if you have specific goal in mind.

As for your new build, I'm having trouble seeing how it all comes together.

Example fight:
Let's say your ally is a slayer (in light armor), and your opponents are two fighters. One sword-and-board, one an archer.

The slayer and archer has higher initiative, and both parties start combat 30 ft from each other.

OA.F.O
OOOO
OOOO
OS.Y.O

Either you or your ally has eaten a full-attack from the archer, and your ally has charged the archer.

OA.F.O
OS.OO
OOOO
OOY.O

You must get close, which you can either do by charging or double-moving. In any case, you'll only have your swift action left to Aid Another. You succeed on the check, and give your ally increased AC against the first attack the Sword-and-Board fighter makes.

OA.F.O
OS.Y.O
OOOO
OOOO

During the slayer and archer's turns, they've 5-foot stepped away. Your slayer ally has taken a full-attack from the archer.

OA.OO
OS.F.O
OOY.O
OOOO

The sword-and-board character plans to five-foot-step backwards and then full-attack your ally.

What will your character do now? You have the ability to make an Aid Another attempt up to three times on the sword-and-board character, but they would (probably) not stack and would only affect the first attack the enemy deals against your ally.

***

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Wonderstell wrote:
Heathwool wrote:

And yeah, probably better to not multiclass all over the place. I'll look at that human fighter mix.

Here is what I had for the golden legionnaire

** spoiler omitted **

This one still has no combat capabilities, but seemed fun.

There's no problem with multiclassing if you have specific goal in mind.

As for your new build, I'm having trouble seeing how it all comes together.

** spoiler omitted **

Bodyguard feat lets you spend an AoO to aid another vs any attack

That said, you really need a lot more Dex to get AoOs to use to block


Name Violation wrote:

Bodyguard feat lets you spend an AoO to aid another vs any attack

That said, you really need a lot more Dex to get AoOs to use to block

Any melee attack, as long as you're adjacent to your ally and threaten the enemy making the attack.

Protector Familiar wrote:
A protector gains Bodyguard and Combat Reflexes as bonus feats. If the familiar is sharing its master’s square, it can use Bodyguard to aid another to improve its master’s AC even if it doesn’t threaten the attacking foe, though it still needs line of effect to its master and the attacker.

So in the 'example fight', there's no way for the Golden Legionnaire build to fulfill those conditions during his last turn.

Bodyguard only sees use during very specific conditions, and is easily avoided by a five-foot step or a reach weapon.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Wonderstell wrote:
Name Violation wrote:

Bodyguard feat lets you spend an AoO to aid another vs any attack

That said, you really need a lot more Dex to get AoOs to use to block

Any melee attack, as long as you're adjacent to your ally and threaten the enemy making the attack.

actually the bodyguard feat doesn't stipulate that you need to threaten

When an adjacent ally is attacked, you may use an attack of opportunity to attempt the aid another action to improve your ally’s AC. You may not use the aid another action to improve your ally’s attack roll with this attack

You probably should threaten, but the great says you can do it as long as an ally is attacked, it doesn't check if you threaten


Name Violation wrote:

actually the bodyguard feat doesn't stipulate that you need to threaten

Bodyguard wrote:
When an adjacent ally is attacked, you may use an attack of opportunity to attempt the aid another action to improve your ally’s AC. You may not use the aid another action to improve your ally’s attack roll with this attack
You probably should threaten, but the great feat says you can do it as long as an ally is attacked, it doesn't check if you threaten

The feat allows you to attempt the Aid Another action. It doesn't say that you can ignore the normal rules for Aid Another, such as threatening.

What the feat does, is allowing you to spend an AoO instead of a standard action to use the Aid Another action. This becomes apparent from the 'normal' clause of the feat.

Bodyguard wrote:
Normal: Aid another is a standard action.

There's nothing in the feat about ignoring the other rules for Aid Another, which means that they still restrict you.

Unless you have a rule quotation that disproves the Protector Familiar quote, then that's how Bodyguard is supposed to work.


Wonderstell is right, you still need to threaten the enemy to use Bodyguard.

There was a thread a while ago where they cleared this up. The dev who wrote the bodyguard feat said that she* intended that you didn't need to threaten, but didn't specifically write that in. Because there was no special wording it meant that you have to fulfill the usual requirements - including threatening the enemy.

In a home game it's reasonable to rule otherwise, but you'd need the GM's permission. As with all house-rules it shoukd come with the stipulation that the GM can change their mind if it becomes unbalanced (in this case it's the main thing your character is doing so I wouldn't have a problem with it) ... but since this is for PFS home-rules don't really matter.

*I think it was a "she", I can't remember well enough or I'd provide a link.

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