Razorteeth Goblin ancestry feat and Double Slice class feat combination


General Discussion


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Posting here because it covers both ancestry and class choices, so it wouldn't be clear which single one to post it in.

The Double Slice feat specifically calls out the need to have two weapons, each in a different hand. This originally would have made me presume it meant that a fighter could not use this feat to include a unarmed attack. There was a post mentioning another feat that mentioned the use of an unarmed attack with a double-slice, but even if we assume the reference wan't a special rule enabling it, it still could be ruled to indicates that an unarmed attack utilizing a hand.

So without further clarification, I feel like I would have to rule that the Goblin could not use their unarmed bite in a Double Slice combination attack. Had it been a Claw, which one could easily argue was tied to a 'hand' on the other hand, it seems like Double Slice could be used with it.

However, I'm not sure what is intended. It would be kind of cool to have a creature like a goblin leaping forward and combining a single weapon and their teeth into a single maneuver.

My question is, what was the real intent of the limitation for the feat. Is it intended to be limited to weapons using only one limb? Is the intent that they can't be 'reusing' a weapon or limb? Is it supposed to only be able to use weapons in a hand? So for instance, if we extend Pathfinder to include Kasatha (creature with 4 arms/hands) could they use double slice to; Can they Double slice with a Greatsword and Greataxe since they are using weapons and not re-using any hands. Or can they use any combination of a pair of one handed weapons only. How would natural weapons play a part. Do they have to be tied to a hand? Are they intending to categorize natural attacks somewhat like 1st edition with primary and secondary attacks, where secondary attacks aren't as powerful, more like single arm attacks, while primary attacks are more like two-handed attacks and shouldn't be allowed. Or maybe they don't want to allow natural attacks.

Anyone know of anywhere these might have been answered by the developers? Like I said, for now, it seems like the bite would be excluded, since it isn't associated with one of their hands. A claw, I'd have to at least consider allowing it, since it feels like a 'adjustment /improvement/boost' upon one of the hands, making it potentially viable option.


Despite the wonkiness of the RAW, I think it is fairly safe to say you should be able to use Double Slice with two separate natural attacks or with a natural attack and a 1-handed weapon. I think a natural attack and a two handed weapon is DEFINITELY not intended.

Where this gets wonky though is things like a Monk's Dragon Tail or an Animal Totem Barbarian's Jaws, which are the only PC natural attacks with d10 damage currently. As no manufactured 1H weapon is higher than a d8 I feel like using these with Double Slice goes beyond intent. So it's a little tricky to adjucate, which may be why the hand language is in place. No hand-based natural attack currently goes above a d8, and the phrasing also prevents silliness like a hypothetical 4-armed race TWFing with 2H weapons.

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Edge93 wrote:

Despite the wonkiness of the RAW, I think it is fairly safe to say you should be able to use Double Slice with two separate natural attacks or with a natural attack and a 1-handed weapon. I think a natural attack and a two handed weapon is DEFINITELY not intended.

Where this gets wonky though is things like a Monk's Dragon Tail or an Animal Totem Barbarian's Jaws, which are the only PC natural attacks with d10 damage currently. As no manufactured 1H weapon is higher than a d8 I feel like using these with Double Slice goes beyond intent. So it's a little tricky to adjucate, which may be why the hand language is in place. No hand-based natural attack currently goes above a d8, and the phrasing also prevents silliness like a hypothetical 4-armed race TWFing with 2H weapons.

Unarmed attacks also aren't weapons in the playtest, only weapons are weapons (in PF1, what was defined as a weapon, and when damage was weapon damage, wound up so complicated that it may have been one of the most tangled FAQs I ever had to research). But I suppose the point still stands about holding in hand in a hypothetical where someone has a weapon in a tentacle or tail or something. I'll make a note of it!


Mark Seifter wrote:
Edge93 wrote:

Despite the wonkiness of the RAW, I think it is fairly safe to say you should be able to use Double Slice with two separate natural attacks or with a natural attack and a 1-handed weapon. I think a natural attack and a two handed weapon is DEFINITELY not intended.

Where this gets wonky though is things like a Monk's Dragon Tail or an Animal Totem Barbarian's Jaws, which are the only PC natural attacks with d10 damage currently. As no manufactured 1H weapon is higher than a d8 I feel like using these with Double Slice goes beyond intent. So it's a little tricky to adjucate, which may be why the hand language is in place. No hand-based natural attack currently goes above a d8, and the phrasing also prevents silliness like a hypothetical 4-armed race TWFing with 2H weapons.

Unarmed attacks also aren't weapons in the playtest, only weapons are weapons (in PF1, what was defined as a weapon, and when damage was weapon damage, wound up so complicated that it may have been one of the most tangled FAQs I ever had to research). But I suppose the point still stands about holding in hand in a hypothetical where someone has a weapon in a tentacle or tail or something. I'll make a note of it!

Take a note that Double slice mentions only 2 weapons while the followup feat of double slice reads "if you use weapon or unarmed attack while double slicing"

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