KageNoRyu |
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While doing a bit of a conversion I just noticed soetthing about mage armor.
its highest incarnation gives +6 to ac, +0 to tac and +5 to saving throws.
Still though I noticed that that is quite weak vs. what other characters at that level could get. Even compared to light armor.
If I take a studded leather and give it +5 (with legendary quality) I would get an AC of: 10 and TAC of: 8. (not taking proficiencies into account there).
So I'm wondering aside from being a gimmick is mage armor worth anything at all? (as seemingly even light armor bests it without the player giving up a limited resource for it).
Shinigami02 |
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One thing to remember about Mage Armor is it has no max dex. Studded Leather with a +5 Potency rune (which by the way is only a +7 armor bonus, Quality on armor just reduces Check Penalty, and even if it didn't it wouldn't stack with Potency) has a maximum AC of 22+Level (10 Base + 2 Studded Leather + 5 Dexterity + 5 Potency). Likewise with every armor in the game really, since Armor + Max Dex always (and I do mean always, at least with the options in the playtest) equals 7. In contrast, a character with level 10 Mage Armor and maximized Dexterity (possible as any class with Dex primary stat using level 20 Bracers of Armor) has a maximum AC of 23+Level. Outside of that absolutely maximized score though, Mage Armor is basically always going to be (roughly) equivalent of level-appropriate Leather Armor when cast at maximum level, and the Bracers form is always equivalent of Leather Armor of 1 level lower than the Bracers.
Deadmanwalking |
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While doing a bit of a conversion I just noticed soetthing about mage armor.
its highest incarnation gives +6 to ac, +0 to tac and +5 to saving throws.
It's actually +6 TAC, check out p.16 under Armor Class, where it specifically says that any spell that adds to AC also adds to TAC unless specified otherwise.
That said, it's probably still inferior to Studded Leather. The reasons to use Mage Armor (or, more likely, Bracers of Armor) instead of Studded Leather are as follows:
1. As mentioned, it has no maximum Dex Modifier, which can be handy.
2. If you lack Proficiency in Light Armor, or, like a Monk, have better Unarmored Proficiency.
Cyrad RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16 |
Edge93 |
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Not sure where +5 Studded Leather = +10 AC is coming from, but that aside:
Mage Armor is equivalent to Leather Armor but with no Dex cap. It is thus slightly better than the lightest armor in the game, and 1 AC behind the strongest light armor. Given that it's meant for characters who can't use armor I think that's pretty good.
CharlieIAm |
In my Playtest game I have two PC Goblin Sorcerers, one Arcane/Draconic and one Fey/Primal with a Rogue Multiclass. At 17th level (the last chapter in Doomsday Dawn) the Arcane Sorcerer is using Bracers and has an AC/TAC of 37, and the Primal Sorcerer is using magic Armor and has AC 38, TAC 36. I'd call it a wash, myself.
Dasrak |
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I forgot about Monks; yes, if you somehow have access to high-level arcane spell slots as a Monk then it's a usable if risky option, although personally I think bracers of armor are less of an overhead than giving up your highest level spell slot.
As for the max dex cap of leather armor, it's only possible to exceed the cap at 20th level, and even then only if you're playing as a class which gets Dex as a key ability score (or if you're using rolled stats, which allows you to begin with an 18 in non-key ability scores). When we're talking about max dex cap and wizards, we're talking about scale armor for most of their career, not leather. It costs a few feats, but the AC difference is too large to pass up.
However, there's one critical weakness of mage armor that I feel people are missing: it can be dispelled. And let's be honest, if a high-level mage armor is dispelled and your AC and saves drop by 5 points, you may very well not live to see your next turn. Virtually everything that looks at you funny has a very high chance to crit. Moreover, if you don't have another slot of mage armor prepared that is the end of the adventuring day, full stop. You simply cannot participate in combat without potency boosts to AC and saves at those levels. That is a massive liability, and I feel that alone makes mage armor completely unviable at higher levels.
KageNoRyu |
KageNoRyu wrote:While doing a bit of a conversion I just noticed soetthing about mage armor.
its highest incarnation gives +6 to ac, +0 to tac and +5 to saving throws.
It's actually +6 TAC, check out p.16 under Armor Class, where it specifically says that any spell that adds to AC also adds to TAC unless specified otherwise.
That said, it's probably still inferior to Studded Leather. The reasons to use Mage Armor (or, more likely, Bracers of Armor) instead of Studded Leather are as follows:
1. As mentioned, it has no maximum Dex Modifier, which can be handy.
2. If you lack Proficiency in Light Armor, or, like a Monk, have better Unarmored Proficiency.
It is +10 ac....I made the same mistake at first. Untiol I noticed quality adds not only to weapons.
Thus the complete ACs for studded leather:
Base stats: AC 2, TAC 0
Legendary quality: AC: +3, TAC: +3
Magic +5=> AC: +5, TAC: +5
=> AC +10, TAC +8
KageNoRyu |
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Uh...Quality says what it does on Armor very specifically on p. 190. It reduces Armor Check Penalties. It in no way adds to AC.
Also, I was talking about Mage Armor there, but that's really secondary to you misreading the armor rules.
Yepp saw it (read it up already and wanted to edit my post accordingly).
Thus it is correct: AC: 7 TAC: 5 for studded leather is its max (sry there^^')
legolihkan |
It's still way better than it was in PF1, and it doesn't cost money. Nor does it have a check penalty or bulk.
It's a perfectly viable option for AC, without being too strong or too weak. Casters can choose whether to use one of their high level spell slots for mage armor or to spend money on real armor. That's a reasonable tradeoff, imo. Keep in mind that we want casters to be less OP than they were in PF1.
Dasrak |
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It's still way better than it was in PF1
Not even close; in PF1 it's the equivalent of chain shirt; in PF2 it's the equivalent of leather. While you do have the option to heighten it to keep pace with potency, you're still stuck with the baseline of leather armor which is a pretty terrible armor type.
It's a perfectly viable option for AC, without being too strong or too weak. Casters can choose whether to use one of their high level spell slots for mage armor or to spend money on real armor. That's a reasonable tradeoff, imo.
The cost really isn't that big of a deal, especially for wizards since they should be invested into crafting. The bigger expenditure is actually the feats for proficiency. However, this still doesn't close the gap since mage armor gives less AC than regular armor does, and paying feats for more AC is an extremely good deal.
Keep in mind that we want casters to be less OP than they were in PF1.
Mage Armor was never the issue in that regard.
The DM of |
One glance at Mage Armor, and I knew I would virtually never be using it. A dip into another class for armor and weapon proficiency expansion doesn't cost a wizard much. It's a no brainer to me. Why not take fighter, get light armor, and wield a bastard sword all for one class feat? Want medium armor? Spend a general feat later. Or save your class feats and just use a general feat later to get light armor and even medium later. There are so many easier options than wasting a spell on Mage Armor for scant benefit.