Can you cancel a Cantrip if you miss and recast it again on the same turn?


Skills, Feats, Equipment & Spells


When you cast a Cantrip as your first action and you use the Somatic part first for a Touch Attack, if that attack misses, can you cancel the follow up Verbal action to instead try and cast the spell again?

The rule book says you can use M,S,V in any order you choose, but it doesn't say if you need to waste your action points if the Somatic part misses the target in an attack.


The attack isn't from the somatic action, it only happens after finishing all of the spell's actions.


Umm, no I'm afraid. I'm not even sure how one would expect that to work. There's nothing in the rules about cantrips giving back the actions spent if they fail.


Oh, just now saw the thread proper, it didn't load right. But yeah, it's as Fuzzypaws says.


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Actually I see now where he's getting the idea. They added text to the Somatic Component description saying that you make a touch as part of the somatic component.

However, just like using Sudden Charge, casting a spell is an Activity, not really a bunch of discrete actions. You do an Activity as a single contiguous block and can't break it apart. For example, you can't initiate sudden charge then break it apart to get more actions than you would normally have on a turn.

Also, Quickened Casting lets you remove the somatic component from a spell entirely, yet there is no text about touch attacks failing to work in this event. The attack still happens even in the total absence of a somatic component, so it is just part of finishing the spell.


Fuzzypaws wrote:

Actually I see now where he's getting the idea. They added text to the Somatic Component description saying that you make a touch as part of the somatic component.

However, just like using Sudden Charge, casting a spell is an Activity, not really a bunch of discrete actions. You do an Activity as a single contiguous block and can't break it apart. For example, you can't initiate sudden charge then break it apart to get more actions than you would normally have on a turn.

Also, Quickened Casting lets you remove the somatic component from a spell entirely, yet there is no text about touch attacks failing to work in this event. The attack still happens even in the total absence of a somatic component, so it is just part of finishing the spell.

Thank you. I have my first game tomorrow and I'm trying to still change my mindset from 3.5 DnD to PF2. I must have missed the part about Activities or skimmed over it too quickly.


Fuzzypaws wrote:
However, just like using Sudden Charge, casting a spell is an Activity, not really a bunch of discrete actions. You do an Activity as a single contiguous block and can't break it apart. For example, you can't initiate sudden charge then break it apart to get more actions than you would normally have on a turn.

Casting a spell is actually a bunch of discrete action.

Rule p. 195

Quote:

You Cast a Spell you know or have prepared. Casting a Spell is a

special activity that takes a variable number of actions depending
on the spell, as listed in each spell’s stat block. You can spend those
actions in any order you wish, provided you do so consecutively
on a single turn. As soon as all spellcasting actions are complete,
the spell effect occurs.

[...]

It quite clear: if you don't spend all the actions consecutively, or if you don't do it on a single turn, the spell effect doesn't occur. But you don't have to spent all the actions consecutively or to do so in a single turn. Since specific > general, the general rules about activities aren't relevant: the spellcasting activity require to spend a bunch of discrete action consecutively in a single turn, if you don't the effect doesn't occur.

In other word, you can announce you cast a cantrip, spend the somatic action, get AoOed and disrupted, announce you cast another spell, and spend the somatic action and the verbal action of the second spell. Since you didn't spend the action of your cantrip consecutively, its effect will never occur.

It seems you can as well do what the OP suggest: announce you cast a touch spell, start with the somatic action, make the touch as part as this action, and stop the casting here if you can't touch the target. The only strange thing is the somatic action doesn't have the attack trait, so doing this doesn't increase the MAP.


I think you would still suffer MAP.

Liberty's Edge

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The answer is no, unequivocally. The Attack Roll is not made until the spell is actually cast period.

A PC has NO way of knowing they're going to miss based on their aim halfway through a spell, I do however think they need to tighten up the wording here so as not to confuse people.


Themetricsystem wrote:
The answer is no, unequivocally. The Attack Roll is not made until the spell is actually cast period.

(For the record, this is where I sit. My prior post was simply an assertion that if you could interrupt yourself in such a manner than I would be of the opinion that MAP would apply).

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