Variant Movements, which is better?


General Discussion


Not trying to bait, I have my preference, I'm just looking to see what everyone else thinks.

Starfinder(and Pathfinder) have four main forms of 'variant movement'; Fly, Climb, Swim, and Burrow.

It was my opinion in Pathfinder that in order from most to least useful were:
Fly, Climb, Swim, Burrow.
But my opinion has changed in Starfinder to:
Climb, Swim, Fly, Burrow. Poor Burrow :(

The reason for the change is very simple; Gravity and Atmosphere rules. Gravity and Atmosphere effect your ability to fly depending on what style of fly speed you have. Jetpacks are pretty much unaffected by lack of atmosphere, but wings and buoyancy are useless(in most cases). Climb continues to be useful regardless of atmosphere and gravity, though you still need to roll(or take 10) with a climb speed in high gravity.

[Side note; The crb climb entry reads like you can climb a perfectly smooth surface, DC -, with a climb speed provided it's not a situation that causes an adverse modifier to the dc, such as High grav's +5. Am I wrong in reading it like that?]

Climb is useful on a planet, in space, on foreign ships, in water(provided you're near an object).
Swim is useful in a liquid. Technically while air moves like a liquid, swim doesn't count it as such, reasonably. bodies of liquids can be found on planets, in asteroids, on moons, probably loads more cooler settings too.
Fly is useful where it's listed as useful; jetpacks are good in ships, space, and on planets. Wings/buoyancy is useful in atmosphere of any kind. Space wings are only useful in space.
Burrow is only useful with sand or rock surfaces(unless specifically stated otherwise) which is basically planets and asteroids.

I'm interested in seeing other people's opinions and their reasonings(if any).

Sovereign Court

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An important limitation on flying is the new rules for hovering:

Starfinder CRB p. 135 wrote:

Hover

Safe flight typically requires momentum. If you wish to stay in place, or hover, while flying, you must attempt an Acrobatics check as a move action. If you fail, you fall. If you have clumsy maneuverability, you cannot hover at all. If you have perfect maneuverability, you can hover automatically without attempting a check, though you can hover as a swift action instead of a move action if you succeed at an Acrobatics check (there is no penalty for failure).

So you can fly safely way above the reach of the monster, but you're always spending a move action each round, either to hover in place or move somewhere else. If you want to full attack while flying, you need Haste.


Once you’re high enough level Force Soles Mk 2 (a level 8 item) obsolete flight, climbing, and arguably slow swim speeds. They even let you stand on solid ground in space.

So burrow is the best.


Xenocrat wrote:

Once you’re high enough level Force Soles Mk 2 (a level 8 item) obsolete flight, climbing, and arguably slow swim speeds. They even let you stand on solid ground in space.

So burrow is the best.

Okay, point taken. here, I'll fix it:

Force Soles mk2, Climb, Swim, Fly, Burrow

:P
Seems kind of weird to call an exception for a single item though. But given how useful it is, I agree.

Sovereign Court

Force Soles 2 is spectacular, but I would not rate Fly that low. A vast amount of monsters are still groundbound and being able to fly lets you stay out of melee. So it's still very good, but it's just not as amazingly strong as flight at low levels can be in Pathfinder.


I think I've been in space.. twice? Where wings wouldn't work.

Fly is better... UNLESS you need to full attack or do a full round action. So a caster, envoy, or someone with a big unwieldy weapon can fly and burn their swift action to hover if they have to, but if you're an operative that needs a full action to trick attack or a soldier popping off shots that swift action to be where you need to be will eat into your action economy. (although i suppose the non sniper operative has no problem moving and trick attacking)

My Ysoki mystic has gone full on bat and has both wings and foot stickers.


My stealth drone has a climb and fly speed. Climb and fly are a pretty good combo. You can fly up into position and grab on to a wall or ceiling so you don't have to hover.

In 2 more levels I either get a 2nd flight mod for better flight or I can go for a burrow speed with the excavator mod. It seems like it could be useful, fun at least with a drone saddle. How many ways are there to even get a burrow speed? What are some good uses of it too?

I should note I also have a swim speed from the feat, but I've never used it. I'll also note how horribly disappointed I was when I found out that drones can't use feet mods. I really wanted to put those force soles mk2 into a a drone for a flying motorcycle.


Felix the Rat wrote:
How many ways are there to even get a burrow speed? What are some good uses of it too?

Polymorph spell, some PC racial options. When combined with blindsight/sense (tremorsense) you can use it to ambush enemies by popping up next to them with a surprise round - you're aware of them, they aren't aware of you when you dig your way out.

It's also a foolproof escape if you're on appropriate terrain and your enemies don't have burrow. Lots of things can fly or run faster than you, but if you can burrow and they can't it doesn't matter, heal or rest underground at your leisure. If you have some way to breath you should always burrow to sleep, avoid ground level ambushes.


Wow, burrowing with a melee character and spring attack sounds like a lot fun. Whack-a-mole's revenge. Now to find a rabbit-race to play as, doc.

I guess for me that puts climb and fly at the top, depending on the situation, followed by burrow, with swim speed only as useful as your GM makes it.


I've broken more encounters with burrow, or the more powerful earth glide, then any other movement type.

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