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We're starting at level 5, Ranger's Apprentice world, 20 pt buy, NO MAGIC CLASSES.

So I was thinking of going swashbuckler but after some research, it doesn't look like it would be fun to play. I like being the leader who does the talking and does damage. Please help me impress my friends lol.


I quite like the Daring Champion archetype for Cavalier.

You trade out mount related stuff for swashbuckler features which is great since precise strike stacks with challenge for damage.

If you don't like tactician then there are archetype switching it out.

I'm blanking on the name but one of the Cavalier archetypes (stacks with daring champion) gives a significant boost to social skills.

Edit: The archetype is Courtly Knight.


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Pretty much any character can be the face and have combat ability. What turns you off about the swashbuckler?


blahpers wrote:
Pretty much any character can be the face and have combat ability. What turns you off about the swashbuckler?

I was just reading in another forum that it isnt the best class to play? The comments were more or less steering him away. I just like the idea of a swashbuckler but it isnt worth much past level 5.


MageHunter wrote:

I quite like the Daring Champion archetype for Cavalier.

You trade out mount related stuff for swashbuckler features which is great since precise strike stacks with challenge for damage.

If you don't like tactician then there are archetype switching it out.

I'm blanking on the name but one of the Cavalier archetypes (stacks with daring champion) gives a significant boost to social skills.

Edit: The archetype is Courtly Knight.

Interesting! Can you expand on the build path at level 5? I've never played cavalier before but that sounds fun. My character's story is that he wants to be a champion and the best duelist in the world.


If you're not averse to Swashbuckler, I'd recommend looking at the Noble Fencer archetype, which will help immensely with the "talking a lot" aspect of your character. It also combines with the Inspired Blade archetype which boosts your damage when wielding a rapier, which is pretty much one of the best swashbuckler weapons.


Ventnor wrote:
If you're not averse to Swashbuckler, I'd recommend looking at the Noble Fencer archetype, which will help immensely with the "talking a lot" aspect of your character. It also combines with the Inspired Blade archetype which boosts your damage when wielding a rapier, which is pretty much one of the best swashbuckler weapons.

Sweet! So I build the Noble Fencer? What does that look like on paper with ability scores involved? I would really like to wield a rapier and pistol for flair. I'm practically modeling him after Jack Sparrow. Lol.


Sword&gun is a pain to accomplish in PF. Keeping several pistols gets cost-prohibitive quickly, and you can't reload efficiently with a sword in your hand (swashbuckler by default also wouldn't let you get your big damage from precise strike with a gun in your other hand)

Ordinarily, this would be where I recommend an alchemist or Juggler Bard dip, but the restriction against magic-users dampens that. (even if alchemist wouldn't normally be considered magic, you'd be there to grow a third arm)


The Sideromancer wrote:

Sword&gun is a pain to accomplish in PF. Keeping several pistols gets cost-prohibitive quickly, and you can't reload efficiently with a sword in your hand (swashbuckler by default also wouldn't let you get your big damage from precise strike with a gun in your other hand)

Ordinarily, this would be where I recommend an alchemist or Juggler Bard dip, but the restriction against magic-users dampens that. (even if alchemist wouldn't normally be considered magic, you'd be there to grow a third arm)

Noted. So ditch the gun and get to sticking people with the pointy end?


The Paladin swashbucklery archetype trades out casting ability. I think a lot of the dissatisfaction with swashbuckler involves other classes getting the swash goodies through archetypes (Paladin and cavalier) and end up being pretty much straight better. Kind of like how ninja / vivisectionist made core rogues pointless.


Hupi_91 wrote:
MageHunter wrote:

I quite like the Daring Champion archetype for Cavalier.

You trade out mount related stuff for swashbuckler features which is great since precise strike stacks with challenge for damage.

If you don't like tactician then there are archetype switching it out.

I'm blanking on the name but one of the Cavalier archetypes (stacks with daring champion) gives a significant boost to social skills.

Edit: The archetype is Courtly Knight.

Interesting! Can you expand on the build path at level 5? I've never played cavalier before but that sounds fun. My character's story is that he wants to be a champion and the best duelist in the world.

Sure. Feats are pretty straight forward. If you use a scimitar I recommend dervish dance. Although with slashing grace any slashing weapon will do.

I would make sure to keep your strength at 13 so you can get power attack. After that you have a bit of freedom if you want to go into combat maneuvers or something.

I would take a look at Chain Challenge, which lets you challenge more than one person in a combat free.

Build is pretty straightforward and the only other major choice is order. I like Order of the Flame and it might fit your flavor.

I'm always tempted to sprinkle on a bit of barbarian. Dipping into Urban Barbarian for a level and getting the feat Extra Rage will let you rage for most combats. If the flavor bugs you, it can be reflavored as hyperfocus.


The Strategy ability of the Order of the Dragon is incredibly strong tactics when used as a readied action. "When X happens, everyone can move as an immediate action". "When that mage casts a spell, the front line immediately moves up to him just before he starts casting". "When that giant moves on a party member, that party member immediately moves away, and the front line immediately moves up to full attack positions". Talk about taking charge...

Oh, and the Constable Cavalier is awesome team leadership in place of a horse, if not doing the finesse thing with Daring Champion.

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