Armory 2 Wishlist


General Discussion

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Xenocrat wrote:
Ixal wrote:
Wearing armour openly is socially not acceptable in most societies
You're just making stuff up. I agree, the fantasy in your head is very problematic. But the existing Starfinder world that everyone else is playing in works just fine.

Making stuff up is basically all you do in RPGs.

The question is, why do the modern societies you make up look like some warlords territory in Somalia where violence is so common that it doesn't provoke any response and it is perfectly normal to walk around with military grade weapons and armour?

Liberty's Edge

Ixal wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
Ixal wrote:
Wearing armour openly is socially not acceptable in most societies
You're just making stuff up. I agree, the fantasy in your head is very problematic. But the existing Starfinder world that everyone else is playing in works just fine.

Making stuff up is basically all you do in RPGs.

The question is, why do the modern societies you make up look like some warlords territory in Somalia where violence is so common that it doesn't provoke any response and it is perfectly normal to walk around with military grade weapons and armor?

I'm right here with you Ixax.

I cannot recall even a single instance of a SF game that took place in populated urban/city center where the PC WEREN'T the exception, and because they wore their armor and openly carried weapons they stuck out like a sore thumb.

For instance at my table at the Lorespire in Absolom St for Dead Suns the party was not only stopped, but also forcefully disarmed, and stripped to their street clothes, as they were visitors, I allowed them to keep any harmless tech and magic equipment on them but the Starfinder Society is NOT STUPID- Letting every tom, dick, and harry waltz in with questions packing 1-5 bulk of heavy weaponry, explosives, and dangerous magic artifacts is in NO WAY suggested as being the norm for the setting.

Security Stations, Police Departments, and Military personnel would be common enough but even THEY would be less threatening looking and armed than even the average 1st level PC.

The whole setting just instantly makes no sense whatsoever if societies just let anybody walk around unharassed with whatever weapons, equipment, tech, or Gods know what else they could be packing.

Adventuring equipment and arms are for ADVENTURES, not for street clothes.. that is unless you're expecting trouble in which case looking like a psychopath isn't your first concern.


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It's almost like neither of you have read (or understood) any Paizo published Starfinder adventures.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Elegos wrote:
The Longarms and Advanced Melee don't need the trick attack damage boost when an operative chooses to use them.

Sure, but it's universally considered subpar.


Starfinder's Pact Worlds are one of those "an armed society is a polite society" places that only exist in fiction. Everybody has guns and armor, dramatic tactical battles happen reasonably often, but somehow the entire place hasn't descended into Mad Max Fury Road-level chaos.

I kinda dig it.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Back to the topic at hand, something else that I think would be nice is expanding on the red star plasma kukri that seems to have been introduced in one of the SFS modules. From what I've seen at the moment only the baseline red star model exists, so if it is put into a mainstream Starfinder book, having higher-level yellow, white and blue star ones would be great for operatives, not to mention really cool looking!


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Ravingdork wrote:
Elegos wrote:
The Longarms and Advanced Melee don't need the trick attack damage boost when an operative chooses to use them.
Sure, but it's universally considered subpar.

Suboptimal options can exist though. Not every class needs to be equally good at every option.

The classes have different niches.

Operatives niches are doing trick attacks with small arms and operative melee, sniping and having more skills then the rest of the party combined.

An operative with a longarm or advanced melee weapon is as competent as an Envoy, Mystic or Technomancer with one. An Exocortex Mechanic, Soldier or Solarian will better at using those weapons cause their class is designed to focus on them.


Elegos wrote:

An operative with a longarm or advanced melee weapon is as competent as an Envoy, Mystic or Technomancer with one. An Exocortex Mechanic, Soldier or Solarian will better at using those weapons cause their class is designed to focus on them.

Less competent than an envoy, mystic, or technomancer. The envoy can still use their get 'em and other class abilities. The other two can still cast spells as an alternate to shooting, and the technomancer can pick up a few tricks that get additional mileage out of non-small arm guns.

The operative is locked out of their main combat oriented class feature if they don't use operative melee or small arms.

I'm not sure I agree with them needed an option to use longarms, but a 'versatile debilitating sniper' that lets them apply debilitating tricks with additional weapons beyond the sniper rifle wouldn't be a problem in my mind.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I would like to see it expanded to unarmed strikes/natural attacks and melee weapons that are traditionally seen as finessible (such as fencing blades or whip-like weapons).


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

One of the head-canons I have is that there is no widespread crackdown on armor, and only heavy weapons are looked at with concern. The reason is that there is a multitude of races that are enormous, strong, equipped with claws or other natural weapons, or possess some other form of threat that your average joe is no match for.

To add to that, there are people who, once they've trained or prayed, can kill you with their minds from across the street.

Seeing a few humans walk by with big guns isn't much of a psychological difference from seeing an uplifted bear lumber by, or a dragonkin swoop past you.

So:
armor = virtually no public reaction
most weapons = eh, keep em holstered and you're fine
heavy weapons = What, are you going monster hunting? Overcompensating weirdo.


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Dracomicron wrote:

Starfinder's Pact Worlds are one of those "an armed society is a polite society" places that only exist in fiction. Everybody has guns and armor, dramatic tactical battles happen reasonably often, but somehow the entire place hasn't descended into Mad Max Fury Road-level chaos.

I kinda dig it.

It's totally necessary in a setting with magic unless you want all the nonmagicians to be chattel who are pushed around and live in fear of every spellcaster.


Xenocrat wrote:
Dracomicron wrote:

Starfinder's Pact Worlds are one of those "an armed society is a polite society" places that only exist in fiction. Everybody has guns and armor, dramatic tactical battles happen reasonably often, but somehow the entire place hasn't descended into Mad Max Fury Road-level chaos.

I kinda dig it.

It's totally necessary in a setting with magic unless you want all the nonmagicians to be chattel who are pushed around and live in fear of every spellcaster.

Do you live in fear of every martial artist and experienced knife fighter?

And do you really envision that in futuristic, spacefaring societies in Pathfinder the response to armed attacks on buildings similar to the terrorist attacks in Mumbai 2008 would not generate any response from law enforcement at all? Why even have a police (we know they exist in Starfinder) when they do not police things.
And is it really normal i your games that people carry heavy, military grade weapons and explosives with them when visiting a concert and no one pays them any attention?


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Ixal wrote:


And is it really normal i your games that people carry heavy, military grade weapons and explosives with them when visiting a concert and no one pays them any attention?

In the only example of a rock concert in Starfinder so far, the PCs were able to walk around the rock concert wielding heavy weapons and nobody paid them any attention because the entire auditorium was covered in a magical field that made all damage nonlethal.


Dracomicron wrote:
Ixal wrote:


And is it really normal i your games that people carry heavy, military grade weapons and explosives with them when visiting a concert and no one pays them any attention?
In the only example of a rock concert in Starfinder so far, the PCs were able to walk around the rock concert wielding heavy weapons and nobody paid them any attention because the entire auditorium was covered in a magical field that made all damage nonlethal.

Which is in my opinion also a very silly and lazy way to handle it.

But enough off topic, the consequences of law enforcement and the levels of violence a modern society should tolerate before it becomes silly can be (and is being) discussed elsewhere.

I still stand by my initial point that Starfinder has enough straight up murder instruments so that more of the same only creates powercreep and instead Armoury 2 should focus on speciality and novelity equipment, including more socially acceptable arms and armor for non operatives for people who expect a bit more immersion in their campaigns.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Ravingdork wrote:
I would like to see it expanded to unarmed strikes/natural attacks and melee weapons that are traditionally seen as finessible (such as fencing blades or whip-like weapons).

This, this is exactly what I was talking about!


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Ascalaphus wrote:

Ixal's got a good point. There may be a few niches still unfilled in weapons - I'd like for the common melee weapons that now jump from item level 1 to 8 or 9 to get some intermediate results - but on the whole we have enough to work with.

What I'd like to see is more augmentations. There are already several abilities to fit more augments into a single body slot (verthani, geneture connection) but there aren't that many desirable augmentations yet.

A whole book for more augmentations would be nice.


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SuperBidi wrote:

Also, all classes are limited to some equipment. Soldiers don't use small arms or operative weapons, you can't have a rocket launcher flying drone (yeah, Airwolf drone), etc...

So, I really don't see why you have an issue with the Operative not carrying heavy artillery. There are lots of character concepts you can't play with the rules, still, I think they give quite some variety so you can find one you like.

Also, in Arcanis, psionics were having grey eyes :)

Since when? Soldiers can use small arms and operative weapons if they want. They have no fixed class features that shut down on operative or small arms weapons, and while some of their gear boosts and other selectable class features only work on certain types of equipment, a operative weapon or small arms using Soldier is never without an option he can use.

As for the rocket launcher drone, how is that the case? All you need is two weapon mounts for a heavy weapon, and the flying drone gets one free and can select a second right off the bat. Unless you're referring to how a weapon mount can only have miscellaneous ammo if it's light bulk or less, in which case, you can just use the Extra Ammo mod. So what's preventing the Airwolf drone?

And yes, I get that those were just supposed to be examples and that there probably are concepts inexpressible under the current rules. But it's still disappointing when the variety of concepts we still can play are being deliberately curtailed (and not even for the sake of balance).

Right now, character class has nothing to do with what sort of starship your party can go around adventuring in. Ya'll want to go around in a Light Freighter or an Explorer or whatever, and the fact that one of you picked Mystic as opposed to Envoy has no bearing in any direction on the subject. More to the point, it's inconceivable that, if/when Starfinder 2.0 comes out, they will mess up so profoundly as to make those two completely unrelated things be mechanically linked. Why would those two topics even be in the same conversation?

But imagine that Starfinder 2.0 comes out and the character classes do prescriptively determine what kind of a ship your party can travel around in. You picked Mystic or Solarion and now your ship can't even get off the ground. Are you going to appreciate that "Well, you just can't play every character concept"? How about "Why do you have to insist on this strange obsession that a Mystic be able to fly around in an Explorer; stop being so unpleasable; really, this is entirely on you"? Or what about "Just play a Mechanic and call him a Solarion; who will even care"?

Do we just dismiss this as "In Starfinder 2.0, Mystics just don't fly on Explorers or have non-grey eyes :)"?


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Ixal wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
Dracomicron wrote:

Starfinder's Pact Worlds are one of those "an armed society is a polite society" places that only exist in fiction. Everybody has guns and armor, dramatic tactical battles happen reasonably often, but somehow the entire place hasn't descended into Mad Max Fury Road-level chaos.

I kinda dig it.

It's totally necessary in a setting with magic unless you want all the nonmagicians to be chattel who are pushed around and live in fear of every spellcaster.

Do you live in fear of every martial artist and experienced knife fighter?

No, because they can't disguise themselves, kill large groups of people, and then walk/teleport away. Also, I carry a knife at all times. And because "experienced knife fighters" don't actually exist.

But this is beside the point, which is your irrational fear of guns. I also don't fear people walking around with guns, because they're not going to start shooting people who can shoot back at them without a very good reason. They aren't even going to shoot people who can't shoot back at them without a very good reason. And if they have a good reason, having a law against carrying a gun isn't going to stop them.

Why are you so afraid that it's driving you to such illogical and irrational assumptions about your game world?


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No, we dismiss it as being somewhere between hyperbole and a fever dream.


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Xenocrat wrote:


Why are you so afraid that it's driving you to such illogical and irrational assumptions about your game world?

Those "illogical and irrational assumptions" is how most of the 1st world societies and large parts of the world (Europe, large parts of Asia, parts of the USA, India) work right now...

But as I said, enough off topic.

Liberty's Edge

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Wowie, and whhooo BOY! Lets not start the discussion about "irratinoal fear of guns" IRL please.

That is not a can of worms that needs opened here regardless of your opinion or anyone elses for that matter.


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Ixal wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:


Why are you so afraid that it's driving you to such illogical and irrational assumptions about your game world?
Those "illogical and irrational assumptions" is how most of the 1st world societies and large parts of the world (Europe, large parts of Asia, parts of the USA, India) work right now...

Yes, and those societies don't have easy ways to hide large weapons, magic that can kill large groups with a thought, guns that require half minute battles to kill anyone reliably, citizens whose bodies are inherently deadly weapons, immensely powerful monsters who look like ordinary people, alien and truly diverse cultures, etc.

So it's quite obviously illogical and irrational to think evolved solutions in cultures in long term contact with each other and without any of those problems would resemble Starfinder in any way.

In addition to which failing you started this by requesting stealth options that already exist in the game and do everything you want. Attempts (doomed as they may be) to help you see that (1) the system already provides what you're asking for and (2) they aren't really necessary anyway are certainly on topic for this thread.


Tectorman wrote:
Since when? Soldiers can use small arms and operative weapons if they want. They have no fixed class features that shut down on operative or small arms weapons, and while some of their gear boosts and other selectable class features only work on certain types of equipment, a operative weapon or small arms using Soldier is never without an option he can use.

A small arms wielding Soldier is far worse than a long arms wielding Operative. So, if you think a Soldier can use small arms, then this discussion is pointless.

Flying drones don't have the Strength needed to take heavy weapons proficiency, and they are the only explosive weapons so far.
Anyway, the game has lots of limits. You can try to circumvent them, but you'll often have easier time playing a class the way it's supposed to be played.
And... nothing prevents you from playing a long arms wielding Operative. The only thing is that you can't use the abilities specifically designed for small arms and operative weapons, but I don't see that as much of an issue.
Also, the game may release more things for you in the future. But I wouldn't expect all equipment/class feature combination to be possible.


SuperBidi wrote:
Tectorman wrote:
Since when? Soldiers can use small arms and operative weapons if they want. They have no fixed class features that shut down on operative or small arms weapons, and while some of their gear boosts and other selectable class features only work on certain types of equipment, a operative weapon or small arms using Soldier is never without an option he can use.
A small arms wielding Soldier is far worse than a long arms wielding Operative. So, if you think a Soldier can use small arms, then this discussion is pointless.

I already laid out my criterion for whether they can or can't use small arms, but it may have gotten buried so I'll say it again. Are they allowed to use small arms? Do they lose out on class features that they can't trade away if they use small arms? If the answers to those two questions are "yes" and "no" and in that order, then Soldiers meet all the criterion I'm concerned with.

Effectiveness is entirely a separate conversation. Are they less effective? Sure (and why do I care? They still get to use the weapon they choose and derive 100% benefit of all class features they paid valuable XP for). Have they in fact nerfed themselves below the level of a heavy-weapons-using Operative who isn't gaining benefit of his Trick Attack or Debilitating Trick? Maybe (and still don't care, because they still get to use the weapon they wanted and gain 100% benefit of all of their class features).

You pay for a thing; you get to use the thing. You can't use all of the thing? You either pay less, commensurate to the amount of the thing that you can still use, or you pay the full amount for something else you can use fully. This is basic trading. That the Operative's hyperrestrictiveness with his choice of weapons forces the player to forgo the class entirely for something else that he technically can use 100% of but has no thematic connections to the original concept is unsatisfying.

That this is a disturbing trend (4E, 5E, P2E) is even worse. I liked that I had the option of using a longsword or a spiked chain as a Rogue, with no further hurdles to clear beyond proficiency. Just like you probably take for granted your ability to play a Mystic and have that choice NOT impact what ship you and your adventuring party can go around in. You can call it hyperbole, a fever dream, and something you can say "Surely not this" right up until it effects you.

SuperBidi wrote:
Flying drones don't have the Strength needed to take heavy weapons proficiency, and they are the only explosive weapons so far.

Okay, I missed that part. So it becomes disappointing that this perfectly valid concept was curtailed and not even for the sake of balance.

Though, to give Starfinder the benefit of the doubt, it was written with a lot of Pathfinder design assumptions (namely, that ability score prerequisites are things that need to exist) that IIRC won't be the case in P2E. If true, that makes the prohibition against Airwolf drones something between an oversight and an artifact of the system (and not a deliberate curtailing like the Operative's hyperrestriveness).

SuperBidi wrote:
Anyway, the game has lots of limits. You can try to circumvent them, but you'll often have easier time playing a class the way it's supposed to be played.

And where those limits exist to keep the game from being unbalanced, I can agree. An Operative with reduced Trick Attack damage or delayed Trick Attack progression for non-Operative, non-small arm weapons is an acceptable limit. But disallowing those things altogether just to cover for a lack of imagination on the designers' part, one deliberately introduced from the P1E Rogue who had no such limitations? Hell, no.

Because the conversation can easily become "you can play a Mystic if you want, but you'll have an easier time traveling around the galaxy with another class the way you're supposed to".

SuperBidi wrote:

And... nothing prevents you from playing a long arms wielding Operative. The only thing is that you can't use the abilities specifically designed for small arms and operative weapons, but I don't see that as much of an issue.

Also, the game may release more things for you in the future. But I wouldn't expect all equipment/class feature combination to be possible.

*Points above to my point about what trading fundamentally is and why "I pay full price/ I don't get full value" is that much of an issue.*

Sure, the game may release something to fix this issue. For example, a repeat of literally every weapon that's been printed out already, just with the Operative keyword and adjusted damage so as to work with Trick Attack and not be OP. Or maybe a Strfinder Unchained, with an Unchained Operative. But I don't think that likely. Like I said, there's a difference between an oversight and a deliberate curtailing. I can see the prohibition on Airwolf drones being circumvented somehow (a drone-specific weapon proficiency feat lacking a Str prereq, for example). But someone went out of their way to say "Hey, I can't imagine an Operative with a doshko, so anyone else who can MUST be doing it wrong, and naturally needs to be saved from themselves".


Archpaladin Zousha wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
I would like to see it expanded to unarmed strikes/natural attacks and melee weapons that are traditionally seen as finessible (such as fencing blades or whip-like weapons).
This, this is exactly what I was talking about!

The only problem is it would drastically skew the power of them in the hands of the Operative. Unarmed Strikes are actually very strong in terms of raw dice (on par with the Dueling Sword until late levels), and it was calculated before that US would out-damage every Operative option even with the -5.

Now this hasn't been checked again since the addition of Advanced Melee Operative weapons, from what I've seen though they still have relatively low comparative overall damage, their advantages coming in the form of new traits like Polarize.


Tectorman wrote:
Are they allowed to use small arms? Do they lose out on class features that they can't trade away if they use small arms?

Yes and yes. They are allowed to use small arms, and by doing so they lose their main class ability: damage output.

Having the right to do something doesn't make it any valuable. Shooting with a small arm as a Soldier is just not playing a Soldier.

And Operative and Drones have been limited to avoid being overpowered. Longarms and Heavy Weapons are perfectly viable on an Operative, you lose the Trick Attack but you gain in versatility (as you can, for example, full attack with such weapons).

Anyway, I feel that this conversation is going nowhere. If you want to Quad Attack with Heavy Weapons, go on. It's your right to ask for the Operative to be completely overpowered. Still, don't ask why people tells you no.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Isaac Zephyr wrote:
Archpaladin Zousha wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
I would like to see it expanded to unarmed strikes/natural attacks and melee weapons that are traditionally seen as finessible (such as fencing blades or whip-like weapons).
This, this is exactly what I was talking about!

The only problem is it would drastically skew the power of them in the hands of the Operative. Unarmed Strikes are actually very strong in terms of raw dice (on par with the Dueling Sword until late levels), and it was calculated before that US would out-damage every Operative option even with the -5.

Now this hasn't been checked again since the addition of Advanced Melee Operative weapons, from what I've seen though they still have relatively low comparative overall damage, their advantages coming in the form of new traits like Polarize.

So make it a selectable option, like the Pistol Whip exploit, that changes the parameters.

It seems strange to me that you can't have an effective martial artist operative as written. Seems like they'd be the perfect class for that sort of action.


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
SuperBidi wrote:
Anyway, I feel that this conversation is going nowhere. If you want to Quad Attack with Heavy Weapons, go on. It's your right to ask for the Operative to be completely overpowered. Still, don't ask why people tells you no.

Come now. That's in no-way even remotely close to what's being asked, and you know it.

The notion that you're not a soldier if you're using a small arm is just bizarre, though, and honestly is exactly the kind of sentiment about classes that I think we should avoid. Locking a character concept out of a weapon type just because they chose one class is icky.

A better argument is that a Soldier using small arms and ignoring their weapon proficiencies is somewhat analogous to the Operative using a longarm and being unable to trade out or utilize some portion of their trick attack feature. Not a particularly compelling argument given that anyone who chooses a weapon type to focus on ignores another proficiency, but still.

That all being said, to bring this back around to the thread topic:

I would love to see higher damage small arms that are locked out of trick attack by being unwieldy. This would very much help Envoys but would also improve options for Soldiers who might want to delve into small arm territory. It sort of gives everyone an option for a mini-trick attack, moving and taking a shot for somewhat appreciable damage. Or people who want to have a hand free for other purposes.

Similarly, a weapon property that could be applied to specific long arms or melee weapons that reads something like "This weapon can be used with an operative's trick attack, but as though they were X levels lower". This would instantly expand Operative weapon choice, and still keep it controlled to the items introduced with the tag.


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WatersLethe wrote:


Similarly, a weapon property that could be applied to specific long arms or melee weapons that reads something like "This weapon can be used with an operative's trick attack, but as though they were X levels lower". This would instantly expand Operative weapon choice, and still keep it controlled to the items introduced with the tag.

I’m going to be honest. This here? This is the first thing you’ve said about this topic that I agree with. I’d take it even further, and link it in with the whole creating custom weapons thing: I don’t know if it should feat or skill based, and it should absolutely cost more, but I’d vote for you being to add the Operative tag to a weapon that you built from scratch. Instead of a new set of rules for it, I’d think it’d be easier if the operative tag just dropped the damage dice of the weapon to something close to existing operative weapons, and changed it to the ½ damage for specialization.

As far as the rest of your points, classes do different things with different items in different ways. That’s why they’re classes. It’s too bad you only like part of what one class does, but them’s the breaks.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Pantshandshake wrote:

As far as the rest of your points, classes do different things with different items in different ways. That’s why they’re classes. It’s too bad you only like part of what one class does, but them’s the breaks.

I'll just save this to refer back to when, in a few years, we have a splatbook that has a Pathfinder style alternate class that's basically an operative without trick attack. It'll be fun to show to the people complaining that we don't need the new class because of rules bloat.

Oh, it might be an operative specific archetype that trades it out. That could be fun.

Silver Crusade

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Isaac Zephyr wrote:
Archpaladin Zousha wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
I would like to see it expanded to unarmed strikes/natural attacks and melee weapons that are traditionally seen as finessible (such as fencing blades or whip-like weapons).
This, this is exactly what I was talking about!

The only problem is it would drastically skew the power of them in the hands of the Operative. Unarmed Strikes are actually very strong in terms of raw dice (on par with the Dueling Sword until late levels), and it was calculated before that US would out-damage every Operative option even with the -5.

Now this hasn't been checked again since the addition of Advanced Melee Operative weapons, from what I've seen though they still have relatively low comparative overall damage, their advantages coming in the form of new traits like Polarize.

If that's the case, then how DO I make a speedy and dexterous swordsperson with something roughly equivalent to a katana or scimitar in Starfinder? There just doesn't seem to be an option to do that, since all the melee weapons you can use to be speedy and dextrous in Starfinder are either too short or too pokey, and it feels like the general consensus in this thread is "Suck it up, Buttercup!"


Vanguards are going to be able to fill the martial arts option.


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Reskin an existing operative weapon to the kind of weapon you want it to look like? Same stats, different name and different physical appearance.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Vanguards are going to be able to fill the martial arts option.

Sure, if you're into that sort of thing.

If not, then "Suck it up, Buttercup?"


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Garretmander wrote:
Reskin an existing operative weapon to the kind of weapon you want it to look like? Same stats, different name and different physical appearance.

Fun Fact: Not all GMs let you just reskin stuff as you please, even if it doesn't make a mechanical difference. Especially when you'll be reskinning something like a dozen (possibly very different, given how sporadic some of the advancements can be, when they even exist in the first place) weapons by the end, because of how the Starfinder equipment system works.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Fun fact: GMs who don't allow flavor-only reskins are missing the point of the game, and usually don't remain GMs for very long.


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Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I popped in to see what else people wanted in Armory two and found a 74 post argument about gun control in a scifi fantasy world.

Thanks for being the Internet, Internet.

Liberty's Edge

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BACK ON TRACK!

I want Paintball Guns that deal Non-Lethal Damage and stain the opponent with Dye or cover them in a kind "deterrent" compound like like pepper spray as well as Bean-Bag Rounds with damage the scales up just like the rest of the weapons WITHOUT having to resort to a Fusion to change the damage to non-lethal.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Themetricsystem wrote:

BACK ON TRACK!

I want Paintball Guns that deal Non-Lethal Damage and stain the opponent with Dye or cover them in a kind "deterrent" compound like like pepper spray as well as Bean-Bag Rounds with damage the scales up just like the rest of the weapons WITHOUT having to resort to a Fusion to change the damage to non-lethal.

Paint ball guns might be a neat way to target EAC with non-injection poisons and gases and things.

I would still *really* like more non-crit based features. Stunning weapons only occuring 5% of the time sucks.

Liberty's Edge

WatersLethe wrote:
Paint ball guns might be a neat way to target EAC with non-injection poisons and gases and things.

Oh wow I didn't even think about that, that's even an existing gap in the mechanics that already exist that these could fill!

I agree too, a class of weapons that deal really low damage (I'm talking 1d4 with NO benefit from Weapon Spec scaling up to 5d4 at higher levels) but instead ALWAYS trigger the special effect on a hit would be really interesting.


Themetricsystem wrote:
WatersLethe wrote:
Paint ball guns might be a neat way to target EAC with non-injection poisons and gases and things.

Oh wow I didn't even think about that, that's even an existing gap in the mechanics that already exist that these could fill!

I agree too, a class of weapons that deal really low damage (I'm talking 1d4 with NO benefit from Weapon Spec scaling up to 5d4 at higher levels) but instead ALWAYS trigger the special effect on a hit would be really interesting.

It would definitely be interesting yeah, but there's also some fusions that it could be potentially unbalanced if it's not worded very carefully. Like you don't want to be able to put Vorpal on it and now every hit is removing a body part of your choice.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Shinigami02 wrote:
Themetricsystem wrote:
WatersLethe wrote:
Paint ball guns might be a neat way to target EAC with non-injection poisons and gases and things.

Oh wow I didn't even think about that, that's even an existing gap in the mechanics that already exist that these could fill!

I agree too, a class of weapons that deal really low damage (I'm talking 1d4 with NO benefit from Weapon Spec scaling up to 5d4 at higher levels) but instead ALWAYS trigger the special effect on a hit would be really interesting.

It would definitely be interesting yeah, but there's also some fusions that it could be potentially unbalanced if it's not worded very carefully. Like you don't want to be able to put Vorpal on it and now every hit is removing a body part of your choice.

Definitely. However, a faux vorpal that disabled targeted body parts for X rounds without much HP damage would be neat as *heck*


So, like a graviton pistol except with different effects. Like a no damage weapon that stuns on a hit if they fail a save, maybe a lesser effect on a passed save?

Sounds like a good backup weapon for a caster specc'd into casting. Accuracy would still be a problem, but a better effect than a tiny drop of damage.

...Can an operative trick attack with a graviton pistol?


Garretmander wrote:
...Can an operative trick attack with a graviton pistol?

I believe the answer is technically yes, but like weapon specialization it deals "additional" damage, which you can't add unless there's some base damage to increase. I believe you could still use it to Debilitating Trick someone though. I'm no expert though.


I want more biotech augmentations. Specifically, I want disgusting, body-horror-esque biotech augmentations. Kinda stuff that the PF 1e alchemist could do to themselves; tentacles, removing & preserving organs, parasitic twins, tumor familiars.

Pact worlds has a picture of a (half?)elf who's biotech'd his arm into a tentacle as the picture for the Biotechnitian theme; so far as I'm aware, something like that isn't actually possible under the current rules, although it would be easy enough to home brew.

Necrographs & some velstrac gear are a good start but I don't feel that we're there yet.


Ravingdork wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Vanguards are going to be able to fill the martial arts option.

Sure, if you're into that sort of thing.

If not, then "Suck it up, Buttercup?"

Then you'd have to settle for your fist and a ring of rat fangs only being the highest damage option till 12th level


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How about knives you can throw?


FormerFiend wrote:

I want more biotech augmentations. Specifically, I want disgusting, body-horror-esque biotech augmentations. Kinda stuff that the PF 1e alchemist could do to themselves; tentacles, removing & preserving organs, parasitic twins, tumor familiars.

Pact worlds has a picture of a (half?)elf who's biotech'd his arm into a tentacle as the picture for the Biotechnitian theme; so far as I'm aware, something like that isn't actually possible under the current rules, although it would be easy enough to home brew.

Necrographs & some velstrac gear are a good start but I don't feel that we're there yet.

Can I say that this sounds sickening?


EltonJ wrote:
FormerFiend wrote:

I want more biotech augmentations. Specifically, I want disgusting, body-horror-esque biotech augmentations. Kinda stuff that the PF 1e alchemist could do to themselves; tentacles, removing & preserving organs, parasitic twins, tumor familiars.

Pact worlds has a picture of a (half?)elf who's biotech'd his arm into a tentacle as the picture for the Biotechnitian theme; so far as I'm aware, something like that isn't actually possible under the current rules, although it would be easy enough to home brew.

Necrographs & some velstrac gear are a good start but I don't feel that we're there yet.

Can I say that this sounds sickening?

That would be the idea.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
EltonJ wrote:
FormerFiend wrote:

I want more biotech augmentations. Specifically, I want disgusting, body-horror-esque biotech augmentations. Kinda stuff that the PF 1e alchemist could do to themselves; tentacles, removing & preserving organs, parasitic twins, tumor familiars.

Pact worlds has a picture of a (half?)elf who's biotech'd his arm into a tentacle as the picture for the Biotechnitian theme; so far as I'm aware, something like that isn't actually possible under the current rules, although it would be easy enough to home brew.

Necrographs & some velstrac gear are a good start but I don't feel that we're there yet.

Can I say that this sounds sickening?

Meanwhile, maybe it's the [PG Unfriendly] in me, but it sounds kinda awesome to me. Tentacles are fun.

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