so, a party of 4th vs a single harpy. They are going along a cliff side trail and encounter the harpy. when she sings there may be a couple to lose their saving throw.
1. what if they are already at the brink of the cliff. will the first saving throw failure drop them off the cliff since they don't have to move to the edge in the first place? I'm thinking not, that they get two chances to save regardless.
2. how deep a ravine should I have. I don't want to kill them on a suck or save concept. I'm thinking 4d6 for 4th levels, or something like what the harpy would be doing if she were to attack. which would be no more that 2d8 + 2d6, which still seems way to much because normally all 4 attacks would not hit. so maybe 2d6 falling damage?