Unseen servant and Hexing doll

[ElderNightmare]

Hello there,

Can an unseen servant be used to fetch hair from an opponent in order to be used by an Hexing doll ?

I would say no because it is a bit too close from an attack in my opinion to be tolerated, but my player think this is not an attack.

Any advice or opinion ?

[avr]

Yeah, that's an attack (or maybe a steal combat maneuver; same deal) if it's taking it directly from the opponent. If the opponent has taken damage or been affected by some combat maneuvers in this fight there may well be hair or blood somewhere the unseen servant can collect it though.

[Derklord]

"Attacks: Some spell descriptions refer to attacking. All offensive combat actions, even those that don’t damage opponents, are considered attacks. Attempts to channel energy count as attacks if it would harm any creatures in the area. All spells that opponents resist with saving throws, that deal damage, or that otherwise harm or hamper subjects are attacks. Spells that summon monsters or other allies are not attacks because the spells themselves don’t harm anyone." CRB pg. 208

That's the rule about what the term attack means for spells (and similar abilities). Someone who thinks pulling hair wasn't an "offensive combat action" clearly didn't have any siblings!

[VRMH]

And what about picking a loose hair from someone's clothes? That's more of a pick-pocketing thing. Which is a hostile act, but not an attack.

[ElderNightmare]

Edit : thank you for yours answers.

Derklord wrote:

"Attacks: Some spell descriptions refer to attacking. All offensive combat actions, even those that don’t damage opponents, are considered attacks. Attempts to channel energy count as attacks if it would harm any creatures in the area. All spells that opponents resist with saving throws, that deal damage, or that otherwise harm or hamper subjects are attacks. Spells that summon monsters or other allies are not attacks because the spells themselves don’t harm anyone." CRB pg. 208

In doubt, going back to basics. I should have known.

Derklord wrote:

That's the rule about what the term attack means for spells (and similar abilities). Someone who thinks pulling hair wasn't an "offensive combat action" clearly didn't have any siblings!

Or a pet.

avr wrote:

If the opponent has taken damage or been affected by some combat maneuvers in this fight there may well be hair or blood somewhere the unseen servant can collect it though.

Good catch.

VMRH wrote:

And what about picking a loose hair from someone's clothes? That's more of a pick-pocketing thing. Which is a hostile act, but not an attack.

Indeed, but in battle, I will go with the blood example.

[Azothath]

Unseen Servant takes verbal commands, thus everyone around you that understands the language will know the commands. That in turn will make your intentions clear. GMs may require a cloth to pick up liquid on the floor as that is a more mundane and usual method. You could use unseen servant to move the doll about which is creepier.

[Derklord]

VRMH wrote:

And what about picking a loose hair from someone's clothes? That's more of a pick-pocketing thing. Which is a hostile act, but not an attack.

I don't know if cleaning ones clothes can be considered hostile, but since a hexing doll needs to be "stuffed" with hair, picking up a few straw hairs from the target's coat isn't going to cut it anyway.