Rod of Giant Summoning

[Garzag]

Hello guys,

i would like to know, if my understanding of theGiant Template. combined with summoned monsters is right:
Earth Elemental (Small)
Small => Medium
Attack: -1(size)+2(Str-Bonus)
Damage: +1 step (size)(1d6=>1d8 or 1d10?)+2 (Str-Bonus)
AC: +3 (natural)- 1 (Dex-Penalty)-1(size)
HP: +2/HD
CMB: +2(Str-Bonus)+1 (size)
CMD: +2(Str-Bonus)+1 (size)-1 (Dex-Penalty)

if i summon something with 2 feets, and it changes from medium -> large, it gets reach, right?
If it has 4 or more feets, it wont get any reach, no mater how big it gets?

[Pizza Lord]

The short and quick answer to your question is: Yes. Generally, a tall creature increasing from Medium to Large size will have a 10-foot reach.
Adding the Giant simple template to a creature does increase it by one size.

For completeness sake:
The number of feet or legs they have is not of importance. It is whether they are classified as a 'long' or 'tall' type of creature.

Most elementals (earth, water, air, and fire) that are encountered in games I have played and witnessed are generally humanoid-shaped (tall). Note, that for elementals, some can appear in various forms, so while an earth elemental is typically going to resemble a '...hulking, roughly humanoid creature of dirt and stone...' and a fire elemental will look like a coiling column of flame, it's not unheard of for one to be in a different form.

Fire elemental wrote:

Fire elementals vary in appearance—they usually manifest as coiling serpentine forms made of smoke and flame, but some fire elementals take on shapes more akin to humans, demons, or other monsters in order to increase the terror of their sudden appearance.

I am assuming by 'coiling serpentine forms' that they are referring to a column of writhing and spinning flames, not as a serpent, in most cases. It does seem that most will take tall forms, but 'monsters' could allow a GM to fairly have one that resembles a fire snake or a bull of flames. In those cases, they should not have reach at Large size. They might receive other benefits, however, like a bonus to CMD checks against certain maneuvers for having more than two legs or even trip immunity if they are in a snake form with no legs.

[Melkiador]

The tags for (long) and (tall) are listed on Table 8-4: Creature Size and Scale, but there are no rules given as to what allows a creature to qualify as either.

So, 2 Legs vs 4+ legs is probably a good start, but I'm sure you could find an exception in the Bestiary if you tried.

[Melkiador]

I thought of an example exception, the roc. It's size is gargantuan with a reach of 15', implying it is counted as long instead of tall. But it has 2 feet.

And a centaur is large with a reach of 10 feet, implying it counts as tall, despite having 4 feet.

But for your case, we know that a large elemental has reach 10, because there is a large elemental statted out in the Bestiary.

https://www.aonprd.com/MonsterDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Large%20Earth%20Element al

[blahpers]

It isn't really well-defined; the GM is supposed to clear up ambiguities as they arise. Feet aren't a great indicator, but then body shape isn't terribly reliable either.

"Long" creatures are usually a size behind "tall" creatures when it comes to reach. This is by no means universal--several "long" dinosaur types have the reach of a "tall" creature (e.g., triceratops, ankylosaurus). Creatures that are neither long nor tall and creatures that have ambiguous shape usually (but not always) use the tall formulae.

In this case, you're looking at a small elemental. If you're increasing its size by one step, you need only check the corresponding medium elemental's reach to see what the intended outcome is. I'd go with that. In this case, your giant "small" earth elemental would have the reach of a non-giant medium earth elemental (5 ft).

[Pizza Lord]

Melkiador wrote:

... And a centaur is large with a reach of 10 feet, implying it counts as tall, despite having 4 feet.

As far as I know, centaurs only have a reach of 5, same as a large horse or a medium humanoid (which they are the combinations of, so that makes sense).

The rest is all good.

[Melkiador]

Pizza Lord wrote:

Melkiador wrote:

... And a centaur is large with a reach of 10 feet, implying it counts as tall, despite having 4 feet.

As far as I know, centaurs only have a reach of 5, same as a large horse or a medium humanoid (which they are the combinations of, so that makes sense).

The rest is all good.

Thanks but that is super weird. I looked right at that entry before posting about it. You just can’t trust your own eyes sometimes.