Trying to live at a max hp of -1 with con of 1


Rules Questions


So some context on the matter. I was playing in a homebrew campaign today where we are level 8 using the automatic bonus progression system. My character had run across a very deadly poison that ended up killing her due to con damage. One of the other pcs decided to get my character revived via the raise dead spell since it was the most accessible resurrection spell available. Being brought back via raise dead puts an ability score at 1 if it was at 0.

Now the problem here is that her max hp before dying was 65. Taking into account the loss of hp from the con and from the negative levels of raise dead, her max hp would be -1, killing her as soon as she was brought back.

Given the fact we are using the automatic bonus progression system, there aren't any stat boosting items. On top of that, magic item of 12 level or higher is nonexistent.

So, is there any conceivable way to prevent her from dying as soon as she gets raise dead?


For an "It's not quite the same, but close enough" solution see if you can get a restoration cast on you at the same time as you are revived.

From the end of the negative level section;

CRB 562 wrote:
Permanent negative levels remain after a dead creature is restored to life. A creature whose permanent negative levels equal its Hit Dice cannot be brought back to life through spells like raise dead and resurrection without also receiving a restoration spell, cast the round after it is restored to life.

That should handle either the con damage or the negative levels, depending on how much diamond dust you have on hand.

Silver Crusade

Sorry, I don't understand how is this possible. Could you please walk me through the penalties that lead you to -1 total hp?


8*max(d?-5(con),1)-10(2 negative levels)=
-2 for a d6 HD

Dark Archive

Minimum 1 hp/level rule?


That's in the formula, otherwise d6-5 is probably going to kill you without the negative levels.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Nice find.

d6 HD classes are screwed, but because of max HP at 1st level, other classes should just be okay (a d8 class will likely be at 0 hp with 1 Con in the same situation).

On the plus side, you're not actually dead, since it was only Con Damage, your score is still the same as normal, you just suffer the penalty, so assuming your normal Con isn't 1, you've got Max hp and current hp of -2, but you'll be stable and unconscious.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Extrapolating from the minimum 1 hp/level rule, I would suggest setting your minimum hp to actual level minus negative levels, or 6 hp in this case.

Dark Archive

David knott 242 wrote:

Extrapolating from the minimum 1 hp/level rule, I would suggest setting your minimum hp to actual level minus negative levels, or 6 hp in this case.

The problem is even with 1hp/level having 2 negative levels loses 10 hp.

So stuck at -1

Dark Archive

So stabilize at -1 and have an ally make heal checks for full bed rest until someone can heal stat damage or it heals naturally


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Name Violation wrote:
David knott 242 wrote:

Extrapolating from the minimum 1 hp/level rule, I would suggest setting your minimum hp to actual level minus negative levels, or 6 hp in this case.

The problem is even with 1hp/level having 2 negative levels loses 10 hp.

So stuck at -1

I was well aware of that rule.

What I was doing was applying the apparent intent behind the 1 hp/level rule to the overall situation, so that you should have at least as many hit points as your effective character level.

Even so, an 8th level character with only 6 hp is not going to be an effective adventurer, so some Restoration spells would be needed to restore that character to effectiveness. The major open question is whether it was intended that the newly raised character immediately should find himself dying again -- and I would suggest that the answer to that question should be no.


1) a properly timed Bear's Endurance spell, and then lesser restoration?

2) a properly timed dose of Soul Stimulant ( http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipmenT/goods-and-services/herbs-oils-other-subst ances/#TOC-Soul-Stimulant ) and then a lesser restoration?
This might be easier as a DM might let you pour the stuff down the dead body's throat, and have it take effect when raised, so no timing issues.

3) Reincarnation is cheaper and lower level. It also makes you a whole new body, so no more poison. If you don't want to take a ride on the reincarnation table, Cyclic Reincarnation and Reincarnate Spy are options...


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

From energy drain and negative levels:

"A creature whose permanent negative levels equal its Hit Dice cannot be brought back to life through spells like raise dead and resurrection without also receiving a restoration spell, cast the round after it is restored to life."

If it works in that situation, it seems to me that it should work just as well in this particular one.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

But in this case, the permanent negative levels are less than the creature's hit dice.

Still, the situation envisioned by that rule is the most likely one to come up, as it is rather rare for a creature to die of constitution drain with negative levels as well. Most monsters inflict one or the other, as best I can recall.


It's a homebrew campaign so you won't have to worry about PFS or other tight interpretation of rules ....

Invoke the rule of cool.

Just roll with casting some restoration spell in conjunction with raise dead and remove some of the stat damage/neg levels

Scarab Sages

Medicinal use of pesh?


Any source of temporary hit points until Constitution could be healed would work too.

Otherwise, I as GM would just set your Hit Points to 1, until you could sort yourself out through healing.

Another thing to consider, is that if bringing a person back results in them having -1 HP max, it might just be that they're beyond the power of Raise Dead to restore.


SRD

Constitution (Con) wrote:
Each roll of a Hit Die (though a penalty can never drop a result below 1—that is, a character always gains at least 1 hit point each time he advances in level).

You are 8th level. No matter what your con is normally, you can not have a max hp less than 1 hp / level, or 8 hp.

SRD

Raise Dead wrote:
Any ability scores damaged to 0 are raised to 1.

Evan at a -5 hp penalty, you still get 1 hp/level.

Raise Dead wrote:
The subject of the spell gains two permanent negative levels when it is raised, just as if it had been hit by an energy-draining creature.

PRD

Energy Drain and Negative Levels wrote:
In addition, the creature reduces its current and total hit points by 5 for each negative level it possesses.

This applies -10 max & cur hp from the Raise Dead spell. At CON 1, that puts you at -2 hp max.

You had 65 hp before. That is an average of 8.125 hp / level. With a d6 class, you would need a CON 18 to get that value with average rolls. A d8 class would need CON 16. A d10 class would need CON 14. And a d12 class would need CON 12.

You don't die until you reach negative CON. The lowest CON above would mean you don't die until you reach -12 hp.

PRD

Dying (Negative Hit Points) wrote:

If your hit point total is negative, but not equal to or greater than your Constitution score, you're dying.

A dying character immediately falls unconscious and can take no actions.

A dying character loses 1 hit point every round. This continues until the character dies or becomes stable.

PRD

Stable Characters and Recovery wrote:

If any sort of healing cures the dying character of even 1 point of damage, he becomes stable and stops losing hit points.

Healing that raises the dying character's hit points to 0 makes him conscious and disabled. Healing that raises his hit points to 1 or more makes him fully functional again, just as if he'd never been reduced to 0 or lower. A spellcaster retains the spellcasting capability she had before dropping below 0 hit points.

A stable character who has been tended by a healer or who has been magically healed eventually regains consciousness and recovers hit points naturally. If the character has no one to tend him, however, his life is still in danger, and he may yet slip away.

I think the spell counts as sufficient healing, thus leaving the PC stable. Even if not, a heal check or a cure light spell works.

Just tending him overnight will restore one CON, and likely reduce the penalty enough to allow the character to become conscious. So would a Lesser Restoration spell.

/cevah

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