Trying to make a viable Witcher


Advice


Hello everyone ! first of all, sorry for my bad english i'm french native.

I'm trying to make Geralt from the witcher games with Paizo classes.

The idea is to make a good melee character two handed, using few little spell magics (Moslty utilitary), like something to make a fire, to make a force field ect...

If i can have acces at bombs and potions it's good too, but optional honestly.

My conclusion was to make a Mutagen Warrior 7 (Mandatory), and a Slayer 12 to have a decent melee character.

Now i wonder how to dip one level class, or sacrifice somes slayer levels, to make my character more like a witcher, using some bombs, or spells i can use with one free hands because i will be a two hander.

I prefere to not depend on divine magic, for me a witcher is not god dependant.

I will be very happy if you guys have some ideas, thanks :)

PS : The character will be Human, 25 points, 16(+2)/16/14/12/10/8 with trap finder trait.


I played a witcher once and I just played an alchemist with the grenadier archetype. It does everything a witcher does!

It has alchemy (extracts, mutagen etc.), bombs, can get weapon proficiency (longsword) for free. To make it even more accurate you can apply "oils" on your weapon from level two with the alchemical weapon ability that you get from the archetype. I think a simple strenght based grenadier alchemist would be your best bet.

Consider also the investigator, they fit the witcher theme perfectly since they are basically detectives and have all the social skills and abilities to conduct a proper investigation, and they have access to alchemy too of course. I'm not aware of a way to make them throw bombs (you could just use mundane alchemical items like an alchemist's fire to simulate that tho) and I can't think of a way for them to apply "oils" on their weapon too. So I'd say they are more thematically close to a witcher but mechanically a grenadier alchemist is more similar.

Another choice could be a rogue with the underground chemist archetype with the bombs discovery. Pretty powerful if I say so myself, it lacks proper alchemy tho.

One thing that all of this builds lack from the witcher set of skills are the "signs". When I played my grenadier alcemist I just reflawed some of my extracts as signs. But maybe if you combine the underground chemist with the eldritch scoundrel rogue archetypes taking the bombs rougue's talent you would get a bit of magic to simulate the use of signs, bombs usage, lots of skills and a decent combat ability? You can take brew potions too and have all the package! I'm a bit unsure if you can combine the two archetypes tho since they both modify rogue talents. If you just skip underground chemist and go full eldritch scoundrel with the bombs talent your bombs will be less powerful but you have almost all of the witcher's abilities aside for oils.

Hope I was able to help you a bit!


Indeed, grenadier seems very cool and close to a witcher, but in fact i will be mostly a melee character, i fear the not full BAB and the lack of armor will be very crippling for me when i will be on combat.

Plus i must invest in intelligence ? so my stats must be tweaked and i cant throw bomb while i have a two handed weapon ?


Opportunist Fighter (Fighter archetype). I highly recommend.


Didint know this archetype, Opportunist fighter seems good !

But what about 3 Mutagen Fighter/ 17 investigator ? not better ?

I really want thoses mutagen

BTW, the opportunist warrior must have high intel for bombs damage and use, dex for hit the target, so no melee with this archetype ?


dex for melee. elven curve blade


Folund wrote:

Indeed, grenadier seems very cool and close to a witcher, but in fact i will be mostly a melee character, i fear the not full BAB and the lack of armor will be very crippling for me when i will be on combat.

Plus i must invest in intelligence ? so my stats must be tweaked and i cant throw bomb while i have a two handed weapon ?

You really don't need that much dex to hit with bombs since they are touch attacks. I had 14 dex and I hardly missed a bomb. I never had issues with not having full BAB because of the mutagen strenght boost. Mutagen helps also with your AC and besides that you have lots of defensive extracts you can use (like barkskin etc.) that will keep you alive. How much you invest in intelligence depends on how much you want to rely on your bobmbs dc/damage but you still want to have enough int to use extracts. I personally used a longsword, not a two handed weapon, you need a free hand to throw a bomb. I simply used the sword two handed when smashing things.

Besides that if you want to be primarly a frontliner probably it's best to go with the fighter archetype (you can still pick up armor proficiencies with feats tho) I played my character as a switch hitter, crippling/damaging the enemies with bombs first and then buffing myself and acting more like a second liner.


And two variant. Fighter (Mutagen Warrior/Martial master, two archetype)
Temporary feats to simulate the use of signs.
No bomb.


What about Mutagen Warrior BUT Variant multi class alchemist ? Seems i have everything with that ? What do you think about that ?


Another vote for the twohanded weapon Investigator. Very strong, no problem at all to hit with studied combat, lotsa skills and many self buffs. Who needs bombs?

Your to hit will be better than a full BAB class with studied combat.

Go halfelf for curved blade proficiency and everything that's immune to precision Damage will be killed with two handed Power Attack.


Enlightened bloodrager, the version that starts with spells. You get to have a few utility spells right from level 1, are still a full BAB, and you have a pretty big and good spell list (all bloodrager spells, plus all druid spells of 4th level and lower) so you can use a lot of scrolls and wands. Should mix well with any melee type class. Also you can qualify for arcane strike from level 1 which can be a good use for swift actions.


Im interessed by some other people awnsers,

Enlightened blood rager give spells, martials weapons, but no alchemy or poison. And dip seems a waste with the blood rager.

Two handed investigator seems good, but the dex ton apply to damage, it's a bit disapointing, maybe with a dip fighter i can make a heavy armored investigator 2handed ?

What u guys thinks it's the more efficient ? or maybe some others ideas ?


- Opportunist + Mutation Warrior will gives you the closest mimic for Geralt, since you get full martial abilities for swordsmanship, mutagen, bombs, and some alchemy abilities.
- Ranger (Divine tracker + Wild hunter + Trapper)

Grand Lodge

With the two-handed investigator you will mutagen, shield extract, AC from polymorph spells. I have not found a need for heavy armour.

Bloodrager is among the best dips for investigators. There is the usual stuff rage, furious weapons, and martial weapon prof, but you also get wand use for things like healing wands, shield and blade lash.

Some archetypes like add versatility like blood conduit to grapple, other add additional DPR like the ID rager. It is hard to go wrong.

None of this is witcher specific advice, but remember that just because a character is strong does not mean they can't have an agile fighting style. That is just flavour. A strength monk is still punching really fast, knocking the wind out of people (stunning fist), looking for opportunities (sping kick). For me, the Witcher is a strength-based character most of the attacks are broad swings, not precise stabs. They certainly have some acrobatic flourishes but the damage comes from the swing, not from perfect targeting.


Opportunist+mutation seems really good, but grandloung convince me, I will go Investigator Two handed, how many dips in Bloodrager you thinks i must take ? and wich archetype will be good for a witcher ?

Grand Lodge

One level dip + extra rage. You can craft some barbarian chew in your downtime.

As for which archetype here are a few options.

Steelblooded if you want better armor.

Urban if you are willing to give up the will and con bonus for not losing AC.

Id rage (dedication) is pretty optimal, it stacks with Urban or ID (Steelblooded I think).

So I think it comes down to how you want to flavour the rage. ID can come from an internal mental drive so dedication works really well zeal might fit as well but the powers are much worse.

Quote:
An id rager lacks a supernatural taint to his blood, instead drawing power from pure emotion.


Bloodrager is a good dip for investigator because presumably you can still use alchemy while enraged. However investigator and bloodrager are both classes that really a person stays in for most of their career. Investigators don't get studied target until level 4, so a dip pushes that out even further. All of that said you can mix the two classes pretty effectively.

SPECIAL NOTE: If you want the wand usage and utility spells you really should go with the enlightened bloodrager archetype. You don't have wand access until level 4 as a bloodrager otherwise and you would only have the bloodrager spell list. They specifically lock you out of this.

Edit: I can't find my reference, if I can I'll post it. I know I thought it was dumb that it worked different than paladins and rangers.

I would probably go 4 levels in bloodrager over my career, and start with it for the proficiency. The rest would be whatever flavor of investigator you like that uses alchemy (no psychic detective or questioner etc.) So probably something like this

Bloodrager 1
Investigator 2-4 (you want to get to discoveries quickly so you can grab mutagen)
then mix as desired.

Grand Lodge

The above about wands has been litigated so many times. I would head over the the rules forum for more on that. The majority opinion is that classes with 4th level casting get wand use at level one. You can look it up and decide for your own group.

Wand use only requires a spell list here is the rule.

Quote:
Spell Trigger: Spell trigger activation is similar to spell completion, but it’s even simpler. No gestures or spell finishing is needed, just a special knowledge of spellcasting that an appropriate character would know, and a single word that must be spoken. Spell trigger items can be used by anyone whose class can cast the corresponding spell. This is the case even for a character who can’t actually cast spells, such as a 3rd-level paladin. The user must still determine what spell is stored in the item before she can activate it. Activating a spell trigger item is a standard action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

I would avoid the casting archetypes for investigator as you defiantly can not use those spells while raging.


Also you can add the alchemist VMC for some bombs and an extra mutagen.


I really like Investigator for this, but instead of Bloodrager may I suggest a 1 level dip into FREE STYLE FIGHTER (Fighter archetype that gets martial flexibility).

This gets you your weapon/armour proficiencies, and 3/day you can grab a feat that you qualify fir for 1 minute. There are some great situational feats, but specifically for Geralt i recommend DEDICATED ADVERSARY. This nets you +2 attack & damage against most enemies if you can identify them, which is thenatic (and as an investigator your knoledge skills should be pretty much auto-success).

(I've played with the bloodrager dip, qnd while i could dish out damage like nothing else i found i was a bit fragile with d8hp and -2 to AC while raging)

Grand Lodge

Purely our of curiosity why not take brawler for uas in addition to martial flex?

I should say this is a good idea you can take extra martial flexibility with the feat that would have went to extra rage or take dirty fighting to vary you combat styles.

Also depending on the point buy steelblood can get you to the same post rage ac as not having rage and urban does not have the problem at all.

You could also eat the bab loss and go sorcerer or oracle bab investigator is amount the most accurate builds in the game so the one point of bab is not too bad.


Brawler doesn't get heavy armour or full martial proficiencies.

If you're not going heavy armour you can probably get weapon prof from race, which makes brawler better (or if there's an archetype that fixes that).

Actually improved unarmed strike on a brawler lets you get deflect arrows (which fits geralt from the games at least).

Either way is good.

Grand Lodge

Makes sense. Good thought.


The more I think about it the more I like brawler.

I'd go half-elf, snag Bastard sword proficiency from an alternate racial trait, and then you you get IUS and can pick up deflect arrows. Maybe not a powerhouse feat, but it fits thematically (Also negating one arrow/round could end up better defence than +3AC from heavy armour).

I should also qualify that when I did my Blood-rag-igator I went with Id Rager (anger focus) who gets -2 Dex while raging, so my AC problems were worse than most. If you went Steelblood you should have something like +4AC compared to my character (which is probably enough).


I'm actually surprised nobody said Magus. I'd think Eldritch Scion if you want to be Gerald-like. You'll need that high Charisma for all that 'Witching' you'll be doing.

For bombs and alchemy just explain them through spells. Invest in the alchemy skill if you want to. You could also get Gunsmithing to produce a keg of back powder. At 100gp to produce a fireball-like effect I think its probably not a great idea.

Grand Lodge

MrCharisma wrote:


I should also qualify that when I did my Blood-rag-igator I went with Id Rager (anger focus) who gets -2 Dex while raging, so my AC problems were worse than most. If you went Steelblood you should have something like +4AC compared to my character (which is probably enough).

Anger takes a AC beating, that is why I tend toward dedication and hatred. The additional and damage are less reliable but increase DPR more, and the Draw backs are fewer. I love this archetype becuase you get to mechanically reflavor rage.


baggageboy wrote:
Enlightened bloodrager, the version that starts with spells. You get to have a few utility spells right from level 1, are still a full BAB, and you have a pretty big and good spell list (all bloodrager spells, plus all druid spells of 4th level and lower) so you can use a lot of scrolls and wands. Should mix well with any melee type class. Also you can qualify for arcane strike from level 1 which can be a good use for swift actions.

Why not blooded arcane strike? No Action needed.

Grand Lodge

Worth asking your GM about Enlightened bloodrager because it got a full rewrite and only the old one gets spells at level 1.


True, I don't like the new version, so I use the old one, but YMMV. Also of note is that you don't get all the druid spells added to your spell list with the new version, you only get the ones you add as bonus spells. Much more limiting if you were wanting to get the additional spell access for wands and scrolls.

One thing to note about the old enlightened bloodrager that is particularly awesome if you are dipping the class is that since they cast spells from level 1 you can use scrolls from level 1 as well whereas you can't with other bloodrager archetype. (This is a separate though similar issue from whether or not bloodragers can use wands at level 1 or not)

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