Readying a brace weapon against a charge: what if the enemy charges your ally?


Rules Questions


You see a guy barreling down on you. Your friend, 10' away, draws a sword and readies to hit the bad guy. Seeing this, you pull out a reach weapon with the brace property. Maybe you also have a special ability that gives you extra reach, like that longarm spell or ability. Then you ready with the brace weapon, if the bad guy charges.

Well, the bad guy does charge, and runs right up to... your ally. You have enough reach that you can get an AOO. But, does your readied action trigger? Do you get brace damage? Technically the bad guy IS charging. But technically he's not charging at YOU. I know the rules do not explicitly say "the enemy must charge you" but they do talk about "receive the charge" as if it's something coming in at you that you take in and/or handle.

What do you think is RAW, and what is RAI?


The SRD says for brace . . .

You can ready weapons with the brace feature, setting them to receive charges. A readied weapon of this type deals double damage if you score a hit with it against a charging character.

It refers to the weapon being braced to receive the charge. As long as the weapon can reach the charging character, it should be able to attack and deal damage as per the brace.

You DM might rule differently but I see no reason not to allow it.

Say I am beside my ally with a long spear, I should be able to angle the spear (especially with its reach) into line with the charger.


RAW David C Smith is probably right.

RAI I would say that you probably do not get the double damage if the target is charging someone else. When you brace you are planting the butt of the weapon in the ground and using the targets own momentum to impale themselves on the point of your weapon. To get the maximum affect (x2 damage) you need to be directly in front of the target with the butt of the weapon planted in the ground. If you are attacking from the side the point can be deflected instead of impaling the target. If you are attacking over your allies shoulder obviously you do not have the butt of the weapon planted in the ground.

There may be some circumstances where you could brace and attack over an allies shoulder. For example if you are backed up against a wall and have another character in front of you, you might be able to brace against the wall instead of the ground and get the double damage. But for the most part I don’t see a target charging someone else as being a valid target for a brace.

Silver Crusade

Yes, you deal 2x damage. You have prepared your action against a charging enemy, the enemy is charging, hence you get the benefit. Furthermore, you can do that even if the enemy charges your ally 15ft away, since the RAW for readied actions states:

Readied Action wrote:
You can take a 5-foot step as part of your readied action, but only if you don’t otherwise move any distance during the round.

All the rest about RAW vs RAI, planting the weapon in the ground and other irl fluff is nonsense. All brace does is to reward a character who has used its turn to ready an action with some extra damage in case the enemy is charging. In other words, it's an extra effect that procs in case the enemy is charging, and is otherwise indistinguishable from a normal readied action in any other case.

That being said, brace is quite a useless ability that I've never seen being successfully used in any game I've played*, nerfing it by throwing in alleged interpretations would have the same effect of just removing the feature altogether.

*Most of the times, players prefer to proactively attack rather than sit and wait for the enemy to approach. If they ready an action, it's not said that an enemy will target them. If an enemy targets them, it's not said that it will charge, and if it charges, the readied character still has to hit. That's a lot of if's!


Like the others say, it works. You get the brace damage against any charging target that you attack while braced.

This would be the case even if you had an enemy directly in front of you and you readied a brace weapon against any charging foes and that foe in front of you charged directly away from you at your ally across the room. You would deal brace damage as they were moving away.

This would also be the case if your Readied action was (assuming a reach weapon) "Take a 5-foot step back and brace against anyone charging up next to me." If someone charged up next to you (whether you were the target or not) you would get your normal AoO for their movement through your threatened square, then your Ready would trigger, you would take your 5-foot step (assuming you had not moved or taken a 5-foot step already that round), and you would brace and attack your target (who would still be considered charging).

There are possibilities where a character could be charging at a target, and somehow during the charge (such as with their own readied action), the target ends up in a square behind the charging character (but still within their reach) during the charge. The attacker would still get their attack (assuming they'd moved far enough for the charge) and they would get the +2 momentum bonus to the attack roll, even though they're swinging backwards.

If it's just too mind-blowing, the GM could rule otherwise in such specific cases, but like the others have said, technically it applies. Like Gray Warden, I also tend to think bracing is a bit hard to actually pull off (depending on what a GM says can and can't be observed from a character preparing to perform an action). Ie. if you see someone readying their spear, you just don't charge and their action is (likely) wasted.


RAW as the above posters have indicated. RAI/what makes sense is more of a judgement call. I don't personally think it's unreasonable to call the weapon set against a charge that isn't going to strike directly into the charging character, i.e. someone adjacent and to the side to the square the character is charging ... pretty much how I picture a set of pikemen facing off against a group of charging knights. It's not like the knight is worrying about just the one pikemen or maybe a second directly behind him that would strike him in parallel to his movement. The question is more of how off the center line of the charge the attack can be and still justify the double damage from being set and the brace property of the weapon. Not sure how to word it off the top of my head but it strikes me as similar to the cover rules i.e. traced from the setters square to the chargers square passing through the appropriate side(s) to the appropriate corner(s) then it qualifies. (That needs work/better wording but I think conveys what I'm getting at.)


Brace wrote:
If you use a readied action to set a brace weapon against a charge, you deal double damage on a successful hit against a charging creature (see Combat).

The fun question about braced attacks, is since you've readied an action against a charging creature, when you make your AoO after your readied action (since it still provokes, and obviously only on a reach weapon where the enemy moves out of threatened squares), do you still deal double damage? Since you used a readied action to set the brace weapon against a charge.

Silver Crusade

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willuwontu wrote:
Brace wrote:
If you use a readied action to set a brace weapon against a charge, you deal double damage on a successful hit against a charging creature (see Combat).
The fun question about braced attacks, is since you've readied an action against a charging creature, when you make your AoO after your readied action (since it still provokes, and obviously only on a reach weapon where the enemy moves out of threatened squares), do you still deal double damage? Since you used a readied action to set the brace weapon against a charge.

Not at all. You're using a AoO to attack, not the readied action (which has presumably already resolved), so no double damage. Just because the AoO happens after a readied action, it doesn't mean that the two are in any way correlated.


Gray Warden wrote:
willuwontu wrote:
Brace wrote:
If you use a readied action to set a brace weapon against a charge, you deal double damage on a successful hit against a charging creature (see Combat).
The fun question about braced attacks, is since you've readied an action against a charging creature, when you make your AoO after your readied action (since it still provokes, and obviously only on a reach weapon where the enemy moves out of threatened squares), do you still deal double damage? Since you used a readied action to set the brace weapon against a charge.
Not at all. You're using a AoO to attack, not the readied action (which has presumably already resolved), so no double damage. Just because the AoO happens after a readied action, it doesn't mean that the two are in any way correlated.

Actually the fact that the readied action has already happened has not effect, the wording should be

Brace wrote:
If you use a readied action to set a brace weapon against a charge, the readied action deals double damage on a successful hit against a charging creature (see Combat).

Right now all it cares about is

  • Whether you've readied an action against a charge (check)
  • And whether you're attacking and successfully hit a charging creature (check)
It doesn't take into account whether that attack is the readied action, or an AoO (common sense does though, but we're a RAW forum, so lets throw it out the window). Therefore both the AoO and the readied action get double damage.


Pizza Lord wrote:
This would be the case even if you had an enemy directly in front of you and you readied a brace weapon against any charging foes and that foe in front of you charged directly away from you at your ally across the room.

But how is that "receiving the charge?" You are not on the receiving end. They're going away, charging someone else. That someone else is the receiver. I'm stuck on this rule text:

Quote:
Readying a Weapon against a Charge: "You can ready weapons with the brace feature, setting them to receive charges."

Silver Crusade

willuwontu wrote:
Gray Warden wrote:
willuwontu wrote:
Brace wrote:
If you use a readied action to set a brace weapon against a charge, you deal double damage on a successful hit against a charging creature (see Combat).
The fun question about braced attacks, is since you've readied an action against a charging creature, when you make your AoO after your readied action (since it still provokes, and obviously only on a reach weapon where the enemy moves out of threatened squares), do you still deal double damage? Since you used a readied action to set the brace weapon against a charge.
Not at all. You're using a AoO to attack, not the readied action (which has presumably already resolved), so no double damage. Just because the AoO happens after a readied action, it doesn't mean that the two are in any way correlated.

Actually the fact that the readied action has already happened has not effect, the wording should be

Brace wrote:
If you use a readied action to set a brace weapon against a charge, the readied action deals double damage on a successful hit against a charging creature (see Combat).

Right now all it cares about is

  • Whether you've readied an action against a charge (check)
  • And whether you're attacking and successfully hit a charging creature (check)
It doesn't take into account whether that attack is the readied action, or an AoO (common sense does though, but we're a RAW forum, so lets throw it out the window). Therefore both the AoO and the readied action get double damage.

No dude, you're wrong. "The readied action deals double damage" is pretty clear and straightforward: you deal double damage with the readied action and nothing else. The AoO is not part of the readied action, is a completely independent thing, in fact you would be able to make an AoO even if you did not ready an action.

outshyn wrote:
But how is that "receiving the charge?" You are not on the receiving end. They're going away, charging someone else. That someone else is the receiver.

You're talking about English, not game terms. The receiver of the charge is the one who receives it, which is independent from the intended target. If A charges B, B is the intended target, but if suddenly C walks in the way and intercepts the charger, C becomes the receiver.


Gray Warden wrote:
willuwontu wrote:

Actually the fact that the readied action has already happened has not effect, the wording should be

Brace wrote:
If you use a readied action to set a brace weapon against a charge, the readied action deals double damage on a successful hit against a charging creature (see Combat).

Right now all it cares about is

  • Whether you've readied an action against a charge (check)
  • And whether you're attacking and successfully hit a charging creature (check)
It doesn't take into account whether that attack is the readied action, or an AoO (common sense does though, but we're a RAW forum, so lets throw it out the window). Therefore both the AoO and the readied action get double damage.
No dude, you're wrong. "The readied action deals double damage" is pretty clear and straightforward: you deal double damage with the readied action and nothing else. The AoO is not part of the readied action, is a completely independent thing, in fact you would be able to make an AoO even if you did not ready an action.
You're mistaking the wordings, you quoted what I said it should be. Currently it is
Brace wrote:
If you use a readied action to set a brace weapon against a charge, you deal double damage on a successful hit against a charging creature (see Combat).

Which functions as I pointed out above.

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