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But at the same time it no longer costs you your first level ancestry feat to be a half-orc/elf. So "what the heritage gives" needs to be on par with what other heritages give.
Yes and no, they became a heritage instead of a feat so no tax, but yes +2 hp and the rest is gone. And instead they get a low light vision. And it is possible for a half elf to get elf step if he is a barbarian or a monk.
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Yes and no, they became a heritage instead of a feat so no tax, but yes +2 hp and the rest is gone. And instead they get a low light vision. And it is possible for a half elf to get elf step if he is a barbarian or a monk.
While I'd consider Monk to count, Barbarian is a much tougher sell. Barbarian Fast Movement is for one a condition (Accelerated 10,) and for the other is only ever a temporary bonus (it only applies when Raging, which means you only ever have the condition for 3 rounds at a time.)
Yes and no, they became a heritage instead of a feat so no tax, but yes +2 hp and the rest is gone. And instead they get a low light vision. And it is possible for a half elf to get elf step if he is a barbarian or a monk.But if I wanted to be a Half-Elf Fighter or Rogue, I'm boned? FeelsBadMan
Half-elves can also take Elven ancestry feats, including the one that bumps your walking speed up.
Yes and no, they became a heritage instead of a feat so no tax, but yes +2 hp and the rest is gone. And instead they get a low light vision. And it is possible for a half elf to get elf step if he is a barbarian or a monk.While I'd consider Monk to count, Barbarian is a much tougher sell. Barbarian Fast Movement is for one a condition (Accelerated 10,) and for the other is only ever a temporary bonus (it only applies when Raging, which means you only ever have the condition for 3 rounds at a time.)
Fair enough.
Nimble only increases your Speed by 5. Same as Fleet. 35 max. Still can't get the feat as a Half-Elf if you're not a monk.Half-elves can also take Elven ancestry feats, including the one that bumps your walking speed up.Yes and no, they became a heritage instead of a feat so no tax, but yes +2 hp and the rest is gone. And instead they get a low light vision. And it is possible for a half elf to get elf step if he is a barbarian or a monk.But if I wanted to be a Half-Elf Fighter or Rogue, I'm boned? FeelsBadMan
Well you only need 2 monk feats. Dedication + Monk moves to get 40 feet using fleet xD
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So with 1.4, half elves and half orcs lost a bit of stuff, unless I'm massively misinterpreting.
Half Orcs lost their ability to get a +2 to their HP, their ability to gain Orcish language, and their training to intimidation.
Half Elves lost their +5 Move Speed, their ability to gain Elvish language, and their ability to get training to Diplomacy. (This also means that it's impossible for a Half Elf to get the Elf Step feat, since it requires 40 foot, and Half Elves now cap at 35, with 25 base.)
In my opinion, the Half Elves were OP. Having access to 30 ft. movement (the big draw of Elves), 8 HP/level, the no-drawback stat choices, and access to all kinds of feats, made them outright better than Elves as an ancestry. They needed a nerf somewhere because they were too weak to begin with.
The Half Orcs were weaker. 2 HP increase (not enough of an impact compared to the 5 ft. extra movement that Half Elves got), Orcish language (worthless), and Intimidation training (mostly worthless too unless you were a class short on skill training, but even then), were things that made them fairly weak as an ancestry. Sure, it had access to more exclusive feats (one of which was Darkvision; kind of lame that it's a feat tax, really, since Darkvision would've contrasted well with Half Elf's low-light choice), but most of them were trash, and I'm more disappointed that Elves are a core race, but not Orcs, meaning these Half-Orc and Orc feats (which were weak, by the way) are being wastes of space since the base ancestry itself wasn't strong to begin with.
I'm not 100% liking this change, since the balance needs to be restored (maybe Half-Orcs granting Darkvision but having weaker feat choices would be a fair compromise) but there is more of a reason to be a Half Orc now than there was before (and less reason to be a Half Elf now), whereas before I practically never wanted to be a Half Orc unless the character flavor required it, so it's a plus in my opinion.
If anything, the race that got nerfed the hardest was Dwarves, since a lot of their base features were turned into Heritages; Ancient's Blood is still lame (and I"m only taking it for a Resonance stress test while being a Superstitious Barbarian), Unburdened is false advertisement and completely weaker to what they got in PF1 (and plus was removed from their baseline), and Hardy isn't great due to how very unlikely Poisons are to come into play (we've gone through 3 parts of Doomsday Dawn, and short of the Alchemist in Part 1 using his bombs, nobody's bothered to use Alchemical Items or Poisons), even if it's a Heritage tax for a feat at 9th level that gives you "Toughness" that stacks with Toughness (which, if I look at it correctly, could be a typo). Hell, I'm not certain they have Darkvision anymore! They could've just went the way of the dodo birdHalf-Orc and spontaneously lost their ability to function at night or underground. Wouldn't surprise me, considering how badly they were nerfed.
Half-elves, at the least since we don't have an orc race to compare to, by being half over full elves get
2 more hp
No Constitution ability Flaw (effective +2 con)
Elf and Human trait
Can choose Elf, Half-elf, and Human Feats
They lose
5ft movement
Elf heritages options
Half/level cold resist + able to live in extreme cold
Darkvision
Hear creatures within 60, +2 within 30
Climb foliage half speed success full crit + take cover forest/jungle.
Hardy isn't great due to how very unlikely Poisons are to come into play (we've gone through 3 parts of Doomsday Dawn, and short of the Alchemist in Part 1 using his bombs, nobody's bothered to use Alchemical Items or Poisons)
I posted the mechanical differences above between a Half-elf and an elf. The only things half-elves lost was 5ft move speed and the ability to take elven heritages. They aren't prevented from taking elf ancestry feats. So at that point it's just all flavor.
Yes Psychic but that's comparing them to an Elf, now go compare them to a Human.
They don't get a second human heritage feat I guess... Not sure what point you want to make with that.
So a Half-elf can't be a half-orc
They can't choose to get a free skill
They can't choose to get a free general feat
That's about it mechanically
Edit: but they have low-light vision and can choose human/Half-elf/elf feats
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Yes Psychic but that's comparing them to an Elf, now go compare them to a Human.
They get Low Light Vision and access to Elf ancestry stuff. In exchange they get either one less Skill or one less General Feat.
Given that General Feats are mediocre at best and there's a Human Feat available for two extra Skills I think Half Elves are actually slightly better than Humans all things considered. Half Orcs maybe less so if only by virtue of their Feats not being as good, but still right on par.
I mean, if there was a General Feat that gave you Low Light Vision a lot of people would take it, and that's basically what you're doing by being a Half Elf or Half Orc.
Since you two did exactly what I asked, thank you ^w^ I honestly wasn't making an argument, sorry that I came off that way, been having a weird day. x.x
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It might be a good idea to have a list of 'banned' words in some visible and easy to access place or area so forum users can avoid using them without having to read these individual Customer Service posts in random threads, especially when it's content currently used in material and online reference material. Without some kind of preventative measure, it seems like it's just asking for extra work for the team to keep removing formerly ok, and still used in print, words for a popular part of the playtest...