yet another weapon scaling alternative


General Discussion


Here's a simple way of providing built-in additional weapon damage dice that, as a bonus, makes proficiency matter without substantially changing the math (and hence, I hope, without unbalancing the game):

If you're at least 3rd level, you can deal extra dice of damage with that weapon on a hit. You get +1 die at 3rd, and an additional die at 7th, 11th, 15th, and 19th levels. (This matches the expected magic item progression. Magic weapons would still provide item bonuses to attack rolls and support property runes, and hence remain important to character progression.)

However, in order to get the extra damage dice, you need meet certain skill or item requirements, as follows:

--) You don't get any extra damage dice if you're untrained in the weapon, regardless of its quality.
--) In order to get +1 damage die (3rd level), you need to either have expert proficiency or be wielding an expert-quality weapon.
--) In order to get +2 damage dice (7th level), you need to either have master proficiency or be wielding a master-quality weapon.
--) In order to get +4 damage dice (15th level), you need to you need to either have legendary proficiency or be wielding a legendary-quality weapon.

The intent of this restriction is prevent the IMO unrealistic consequence of characters with middling combat training doing increasingly massive damage with their attacks as they become more experienced. Normally, extraordinary effectiveness requires extraordinary gear. However, unusually high proficiency lets you override this restriction. Apart from special cases in which the party loses access to their equipment, this should have the effect of underwriting the fighter's fantasy as the master of weapons: fighters can pick up a fallen enemy's weapon after being disarmed, or carry a small armory of inexpensive weapons suited to different situations, without losing virtually the entirety of their combat effectiveness.


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Just have it based on Trained proficiency and level:

Level
3-4: +1 to hit/+1 weapon damage dice
5-8: +2 to hit/+2 weapon damage dice
9-12: +3 to hit/+3 weapon damage dice
13-16: +4 to hit/+4 weapon damage dice
17-20: +5 to hit/+5 weapon damage dice

That way you are guaranteed to have the expected to hit and damage for your level.

The potential for a 20th-level Fighter to go from +34 to hit and deal 6dX damage, to +29 to hit and deal 1dX damage, is a bit extreme.


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It'd be easier to just remove Potency rules altogether (adjusting monster math as appropriate) and tie weapon quality and/or proficiency to damage dice and to-hit (to a limit of 5 bonus dice from these two sources).

So if a Fighter is running around with Legendary proficiency, he can wield any Master quality weapon and get 5 dice with +5 to hit (but if he runs around with a Legendary weapon, it still caps at 5 dice and +5 to hit, maybe unless he spends a 20th level feat for it?). Similarly, if a Barbarian or Rogue runs around with Expert proficiency and a Legendary weapon, they might only get 4 dice and +4 to hit, but with Sneak Attack or Rage making up that difference, they would be approximately on par with (or even perhaps better on average than) Fighters. Rangers and Paladins might still require legendary weapons for their proficiencies, but they have auxilliary features (like the Barbarians and Rogues) that make them on-par or better on average too.

Yes, spellcasters (like Bards, Sorcerers, Wizards, and maybe Druids or Clerics) will fall behind, but that is by design, since they have access to spells that offer all kinds of utility and variety of attack modes, which is a strength all their own. (Which I hear will be getting buffed in update 1.5, great timing for my Ancient Blooded Dwarven Barbarian with the Superstition Totem!)

The same arguments can be made for armor proficiencies (though IMO, this needs more adjustment besides what is currently there, since only Fighters, Paladins, Grey Maidens, and maybe Monks have Armor Proficiency boosts).

This way, all classes can be about equal in damage output (though their requirements to achieving that level will be different from one another, which makes sense), Potency isn't required, and classes can function without anywhere near as many "mandatory" magic items (seriously, other than the boost at 14th, no other magic item would be "necessary" under this ruling).


Since each class has its own rules for proficiency, it can easily have its own rules for damage scaling.
All of them should eventually get to 6 dice (or whatever the cap is, in case magical weapons keep part of that job), but they can do at a different level.


Megistone wrote:

Since each class has its own rules for proficiency, it can easily have its own rules for damage scaling.

All of them should eventually get to 6 dice (or whatever the cap is, in case magical weapons keep part of that job), but they can do at a different level.

Or at least 5 dice with the remaining sixth being due to an Accuracy property rune. That way, those who want to explore the narrative space of "magic making a weapon more weapon-y" can do so without that space becoming tired and redundant ("not-magic to magic" is a significant change to the narrative; "+1 to +2" is "second verse, same as the first") or making users of weapons without that particular enhancement obsolete.


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Tectorman wrote:
Megistone wrote:

Since each class has its own rules for proficiency, it can easily have its own rules for damage scaling.

All of them should eventually get to 6 dice (or whatever the cap is, in case magical weapons keep part of that job), but they can do at a different level.
Or at least 5 dice with the remaining sixth being due to an Accuracy property rune. That way, those who want to explore the narrative space of "magic making a weapon more weapon-y" can do so without that space becoming tired and redundant ("not-magic to magic" is a significant change to the narrative; "+1 to +2" is "second verse, same as the first") or making users of weapons without that particular enhancement obsolete.

This is actually a thing I have already proposed: limiting Potency runes to +1 and let them compete with the other ones, while allowing for more runes at least on higher quality items.

Or if the +1 Potency still feels overpowered and mandatory, it can be split into Accuracy (+1 to hit) and Potency (+1 die of damage).


Megistone wrote:
Tectorman wrote:
Megistone wrote:

Since each class has its own rules for proficiency, it can easily have its own rules for damage scaling.

All of them should eventually get to 6 dice (or whatever the cap is, in case magical weapons keep part of that job), but they can do at a different level.
Or at least 5 dice with the remaining sixth being due to an Accuracy property rune. That way, those who want to explore the narrative space of "magic making a weapon more weapon-y" can do so without that space becoming tired and redundant ("not-magic to magic" is a significant change to the narrative; "+1 to +2" is "second verse, same as the first") or making users of weapons without that particular enhancement obsolete.

This is actually a thing I have already proposed: limiting Potency runes to +1 and let them compete with the other ones, while allowing for more runes at least on higher quality items.

Or if the +1 Potency still feels overpowered and mandatory, it can be split into Accuracy (+1 to hit) and Potency (+1 die of damage).

You can also find similar examples of weapons getting straight-up stat-boosting magic effects (but only the one and treated the same as any other magic effect) in Iron Kingdoms's Mekanikal (sp?) upgrades and SWSE's lightsaber crystals (well, Force not magic, but same thing). I remember my Jedi martial artist making a stunsaber instead of taking the stock +1-to-attack Ilium crystal (and eventually losing the lightsaber anyway 'cause her fists could do better).


Sorry to have to annoy you, but the expected magic item progression places new magical weapons at levels 5, 9, 13, 17 and 21.
You’re two levels earlier.


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Ludovicus wrote:


However, in order to get the extra damage dice, you need meet certain skill or item requirements, as follows:

--) You don't get any extra damage dice if you're untrained in the weapon, regardless of its quality.
--) In order to get +1 damage die (3rd level), you need to either have expert proficiency or be wielding an expert-quality weapon.
--) In order to get +2 damage dice (7th level), you need to either have master proficiency or be wielding a master-quality weapon.
--) In order to get +4 damage dice (15th level), you need to you need to either have legendary proficiency or be wielding a legendary-quality weapon.

Good idea.

Adjust the levels to suit and probably tone down magic weapon numbers as well.

Flavourwise, I don't like that combat becomes so item/weapon dependant as you go up levels. Conan needs to be able to pick up an ordinary spear and still be impressive.

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