'Fraidy-cat Ghost Mages in Undarin


Doomsday Dawn Game Master Feedback


Just realized something while going over the module again and familiarizing myself with the updated critters and their abilities.

Ghosts are not immune to fear or mind-affecting effects.

Therefore, in Wave 2/Event 5, the position of the ghost mages is decidedly within the area-of-effect of the lich's fearful presence. Nothing about that Bestiary ability says that it does not effect allies.

And, so, I pre-rolled their saves.

Naturally, all succeeded but not critically. Therefore, on the first round of combat, the ghost-mages will suffer from the Frightened-1 condition.

This seems ... wrong.

Thoughts?

Yours,
Sylvan


ADDITION:

Once the Demilich-and-friends appear, the Demilich's aura of baditude (aka flying, telekinetic debris) pounds the living crap out of the shambling mummy-retainer corpses.

I think I'll have to have the flying skull-of-doom move elsewhere on its turn to allow more cadavers to escape the churned soil and actually have a chance of...

Aw, who'm I kidding? They're cannon-fodder. Only the banshee stands a chance of hurting anyone. (We have 5 PCs so, now, there's a banshee.)

And if she, like the others, are here to go after the heroes in the basement with the White Theorem, isn't she just going to fly, incorporeally, with her 60-foot movement down those stairs without anything to stop her?

The more I think about it, incorporeal critters in this are a mismatch for the stated goals.

I think I'll have to override the goal in her case and just have her attack the PCs.


Sylvan Scott wrote:

And if she, like the others, are here to go after the heroes in the basement with the White Theorem, isn't she just going to fly, incorporeally, with her 60-foot movement down those stairs without anything to stop her?

The more I think about it, incorporeal critters in this are a mismatch for the stated goals.

I'm pretty sure the monsters stop to fight any PC's that are actively guarding the stairs. If the monsters were just trying to bypass the PC's without fighting, it would be effectively impossible to win; you just can't block movement in a reliable way like that in PF2.

(though admittedly incorporeal and teleporting creatures are pretty hard to confine in PF1 as well)


Dasrak wrote:
Sylvan Scott wrote:

And if she, like the others, are here to go after the heroes in the basement with the White Theorem, isn't she just going to fly, incorporeally, with her 60-foot movement down those stairs without anything to stop her?

The more I think about it, incorporeal critters in this are a mismatch for the stated goals.

I'm pretty sure the monsters stop to fight any PC's that are actively guarding the stairs. If the monsters were just trying to bypass the PC's without fighting, it would be effectively impossible to win; you just can't block movement in a reliable way like that in PF2.

(though admittedly incorporeal and teleporting creatures are pretty hard to confine in PF1 as well)

True, true...

Mostly, I was thinking that the banshee being added is particularly un-containable. She's only added to increase difficulty for 5 PCs but she drastically changes the entire calculus of the encounter just by being incorporeal.

Liberty's Edge

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My main thoughts on the ghosts are that they've been inside the aura for longer than a round already when combat begins and are thus unaffected.

My assumption on the creatures trying to get downstairs is that they generally aren't suicidal and thus don't want to leave enemies behind them, since getting trapped between two groups of enemies really sucks. They're willing to leave distracted PCs behind...but generally only reluctantly even then.


Deadmanwalking wrote:

My main thoughts on the ghosts are that they've been inside the aura for longer than a round already when combat begins and are thus unaffected.

My assumption on the creatures trying to get downstairs is that they generally aren't suicidal and thus don't want to leave enemies behind them, since getting trapped between two groups of enemies really sucks. They're willing to leave distracted PCs behind...but generally only reluctantly even then.

I'm of two minds on this.

Later, the risen dead are clearly just-now activated and didn't exist, before-hand. I was thinking the same for the ghosts.

Then again, if the lich and demilich have been down there for centuries and, only just now, awoke ... you could be right.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32

It takes three rounds for the lich and ghosts to emerge, during which time they're casting spells. Assuming the ghosts fail their Will saves, they would recover from the frightened condition before the PCs see them emerge from the ground.

That assumes, of course, no critical fails. If so, I guess the PCs get the amusement of watching the ghosts pop out of their graves and run off in the wrong direction for one round.


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Well, it just needs some tightening in the final wording when published, which is good feedback. Auras like this should always be worded so that they only affect enemies and not allies, unless something really is intended to always go it solo.

Paizo Employee Designer

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Noted, thanks.


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Mark Seifter wrote:
Noted, thanks.

Say, Mark: I just want to say it is not my intent to be a surly, annoying, demanding, entitled gamer. Some of my review was doubtless more snarky than necessary. I have only 1 published module to my name from years and years ago. You are an expert currently working in the industry. I do not, in any way, want to impugn your skill and experience.

I've been a bit unhappy with some things, of late, and I believe that may be making my participation in the Playtest to be more combative than intended or necessary.

My apologies.

Yours,
Sylvan

Paizo Employee Designer

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No worries, you found a useful bug that we need to fix. It's natural that if you're emotionally invested, a playtest can be frustrating. But it's how we're going to make the game better. And if you need to step back for breathing room at any time, that's cool too. Thanks for your help!


Mark Seifter wrote:
No worries, you found a useful bug that we need to fix. It's natural that if you're emotionally invested, a playtest can be frustrating. But it's how we're going to make the game better. And if you need to step back for breathing room at any time, that's cool too. Thanks for your help!

Thank you, Mark.

Going forward, I'll still try to keep my comments constructive and actionable.

Be well and happy gaming!

Yours,
Sylvan

Silver Crusade

Very interesting, I noticed the same problems but also noticed that I made a mistake in reading the encounters.
I just had 4 players but the way I read the adjustments I assumed that all the listed monsters should appear and the adjustments should just add more.

Could we maybe reconsider the formatting here and add the stats for the Banshee under the 5 player adjustment? This is just an example I made the same mistake in the second combat.

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