Could Flanking just give the Flat-footed condition to everyone?


General Discussion


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It doesn't make sense that if someone is Flanked a 3rd attacker wouldn't get any benift because he is not Flanking...

It's like that is easier to defend against 3 attackers than only 2.

This could improve a lot ranged builds too and would be easier to track


Dante Doom wrote:

It doesn't make sense that if someone is Flanked a 3rd attacker wouldn't get any benift because he is not Flanking...

It's like that is easier to defend against 3 attackers than only 2.

This could improve a lot ranged builds too and would be easier to track

This is how it used to work in 3.0/3.5 I believe and was changed when Pathfinder was released.

We've always just houseruled it to be a condition instead of an attack modifier.

That said they seem to have gone out of their way in PF2 to have it apply the Flatfooted condition but only to the people flanking which seems a bit silly.

One might have said the Pathfinder changed to Flanking from Flanked was an unintentional consequence, but this definitely seems deliberate. I am curious what the reasoning behind that is.


Actually, I think it makes sense the way it is.

.

If Y is you and you are fighting an orc (O):

O
Y

You get no penalty since you can clearly see the orc and keep track of what it's doing.

Now I add two goblins, G:

.. O
G Y G

The two goblins are flanking you. No matter how you try, you can't watch them both at the same time, so they get a bonus to attack you.

But you can still watch the orc. Watching the orc doesn't hurt your defenses against the goblins, so you might as well watch the orc. In this scenario, you have enough attention on the orc that he gets no benefit when attacking you, but those two flanking goblins still do.


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I'd debate that one. You still would be looking at the two goblins which means you aren't watching every movement the orc is making.

Flanking is because you can't focus on one thing, you should still have trouble focusing on anything the orc is doing if you're trying to split your attention to your left and your right as well.

This is how folks in cars have hit people walking through a crosswalk.. they're too busy looking left and right and what is in front is missed.. and they hit something~ I can only imagine that gets worse when you're trying desperately against 3 things trying to murder ya

granted, I still find it a bit odd that the L arrangement wouldn't' result in flanking (well i haven't rechecked as i could easily be misremember for 2E)


Zwordsman wrote:

I'd debate that one. You still would be looking at the two goblins which means you aren't watching every movement the orc is making.

Flanking is because you can't focus on one thing, you should still have trouble focusing on anything the orc is doing if you're trying to split your attention to your left and your right as well.

This is how folks in cars have hit people walking through a crosswalk.. they're too busy looking left and right and what is in front is missed.. and they hit something~ I can only imagine that gets worse when you're trying desperately against 3 things trying to murder ya

granted, I still find it a bit odd that the L arrangement wouldn't' result in flanking (well i haven't rechecked as i could easily be misremember for 2E)

Exactly this. It's not a matter of being able to "see" the enemy, because the game doesn't really have a discernible line of sight in regards to flanking anyways.

It's a matter of not being able to respond as well because you have people attacking from opposite positions.

The point is being caught of guard by the multiple points of attack, not the act off being able to see your opponent. In large scale battles, forces would often "flank" for tactical benefit. They were entirely visible through the assault, it was simply the point of attack which caught them off guard.


Midnightoker wrote:


This is how it used to work in 3.0/3.5 I believe and was changed when Pathfinder was released.

Nope, worked this same way in 3.0 and 3.5

An early Monte Cook article from Dragon that talked about his favorite house rules had it applying to the 3rd character.


Pirate Rob wrote:
Midnightoker wrote:


This is how it used to work in 3.0/3.5 I believe and was changed when Pathfinder was released.

Nope, worked this same way in 3.0 and 3.5

An early Monte Cook article from Dragon that talked about his favorite house rules had it applying to the 3rd character.

Must have missed the fine print then, but it was definitely a condition before

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