Hi there fellow pathfinder players and DMs,
I’m posting my first question ever on this boards and i hope that someone can answer my question(s), if possible with source.
Right now one of the campaigns I’m playing is a Wrath of the Righteous campaign and we just finished the third book.
I’m playing a paladin there with the champion mythic path (great choice).
My question is about multipliers and if they stack.
In my case right now i have a strength score of (15 base +2 race (human) +6 belt +3 points of the level ups (4, 8, 12) and +6 from mythic (2 from the base path abilities you can choose and 4 (2+2) from 2nd and 4th mythic rank) 32. So a +11 modifier.
I’m using radiance which is a +3 weapon right now.
So if two-handed its 16 from my strength +3 from radiance for +19. I’m also using mythic power attack which gives me +3 damage (instead of 2) +3 for every 4 BAB ( so 4 times right now) for 12 damage x1,5 because I’m two-handing the weapon for 18. So +27 damage in total.
If I use smite it deals 12 damage right now. 24 on my first hit against a demon for example. I also use vital strike, improved and mythic version so I should get one attack off with 1d6 (because radiance is a scimitar because my paladin’s deity is sarenrae) +51 x3 because of my vital strike and the mythic version I get 3d6+103 right?
I also have the mythic improved crit feat for a x3 crit modifier. I have the trait connected to the champion path so i can spend a mythic point for another +1 on my crit modifier for a x4 crit on 15-20 (because improved crit feat on scimitar).
If I crit now i deal 12d6+412 right? And I can make my special mythic attack for my mythic rank (5) on damage rolls which is also mulitplied by the mythic
Actually the <Mythic Vital Strike> does not change that the added weapon dice are not multiplied on a crit, only that you multiply all other numeric bonuses added to the damage by the number of weapon dice, which has already been calculated for the +27 damage.
The numbers for a critical hit with smite on and a x4 multiplier would be 4d6 + 468 (1d6 base + 2d6 IVS + 1d6 base crit; + 117(3 MythicVS x 39(27 base damage + 12 smite)). or increase to 4d6 + 612 on your first hit on a demon.
I personally have no idea where you are pulling the Mythic Rank to damage ability from, it doesn't exist.
(Champion's Strike is [a.] A swift action and [b.]adds tier to the attack roll; and none of the path abilities would add tier to damage for this sort of attack unless you're talking about the one that hits constructs.)
As to answer the original question of stacking modifiers... you're increasing the existing modifier... not adding a critical modifier bonus to it.
You might want to grab Mythic Solutions to help with some of those rules at the table!
Excuse my late reply, we haven´t been playing WotR since then. We are using the first set of mythic rules first introduced in the mythic book.
For the Mythic-Tier to damage: I must have confused something there, it says mythic-tier to attack roll on Sudden Attack:
"As a swift action, you can expend one use of mythic power to make a melee attack at your highest attack bonus. This is in addition to any other attacks you make this round. When making a sudden attack, you roll twice and take the better result, adding your tier to the attack roll. Damage from this attack bypasses all damage reduction."
I was talking about the 6th tier perfect strike ability, must have missed the 6th tier requirement.
But still, my calculation was right?
With 32 Strength = +11, or +16 on two-handed
mythic power attack = 3+3 per 4 BAB = at level 12 4*3= 12, or 18 if two handed
+3 from my weapon
+24 on first hit from smite
and mythic vital strike with the normal improved vital strike is three times my normal damage
so it would be vital strike 3*(16+18+3+24+1d6)= 3d6+183
On a crit it would normally be times 2, with mythic improved crit it´s times 3 and with the trait-bonus it´s times 4.
so on a crit it would be 4*(3d6+183)=12d6+732.
If i would calculate with the perfect strike path ability and foe biting and using 4 (2 for each ability) uses of mythic power on a crit, those 12d6+732 would be multiplied by 2 and then again by 2? Because they both double my total damage, so with 3,5dmg per d6= 42+732= 774x2x2= 3096 damage, in one single hit?
Are there any mistakes left?
Thanks again,
Greetings Raxaas
Addition:
"If i would calculate with the perfect strike path ability and foe biting and using 4 (2 for each ability) uses of mythic power on a crit, those 12d6+732 would be multiplied by 2 and then again by 2? Because they both double my total damage, so with 3,5dmg per d6= 42+732= 774x2x2= 3096 damage, in one single hit?"
With perfect strike my crit multplier would get another +1, so my stats on a crit would be
5*(3d6+183)= 15d6+183
=15d6+915
3.5dmg per d6= 52.5=52dmg+915= 967
*2 from perfect strike (as soon as I get it)= 1934
*2 from foe biting weapon (as soon as I get it)= 3868
That´s absolutely crazy. I don´t get how Paizo didn´t calculate that before releasing mythic.
About the initial damage output, yes, it would be 12d6+732, which is broken to say the least :')
However, about the perfect strike, I think there is a major difference in RAW and RAI. You can't use vital strike AND perfect strike in the same standard action. So that's a no-no on the x2 on damage. However, the foe-biting does work (if you use the amount of mythic powers) to double the damage.
So, when you're going to break the game and crit on your vital strike and use the foe-biting legendary ability, your damage will be (12d6+732)x2. when taking 3.5dmg/d6, this would result in (42+732)x2=1548 damage on a single hit.
If your GM is allowing this, be advised that he may as well use it against you ;)
Okay, so this was correct. Thank you for a second opinion on that.
Yes, my GM might as well use it against me, but he is so exhausted because of my character. The other players in the group aren´t that potent, one is a kasatha-inquisitor with the monster-feat multi weapon combat (or something and house-rouled that he can take advanced versions of this for his next BAB-points) so he can make four attacks with one bab, 8 with the second bab attack, 12 with his 3rd bab and 16 with the speed enchantment (eventually on all his weapons by then). Which sounds op but he only does a small percentage of my damage, because I think he isn´t that good in optimizing the class. The third player is a battle oracle, who didn´t care about mythic until tier 5, because he thought it´s a waste of time.
If you happen to have time for another question:
in book 4 "Midnight Isles" of Wrath of the Righteous, we are facing Nocticula but just as a social encounter. I´m playing a Sarenrae Paladin, so by my code, if I can, I should kill her. Which is possible, shown by that damagenumbers. Do you happen to have any quick idea how I could play it to not kill a CR 30 enemy (because of the 9 Million something XP)? Because that would bump us to Level 19 instantly as we are just a 3 player group and are using the slow XP progress.
Thanks in advance
Greetings Raxaas
I would personally advise you NOT to take up arms against her. Yes, it is possible with your damage output to one-shot her, however, to be able to one-shot her, you have to get a crit-threat, and then you have to comfirm the crit as well.
Your BAB is 12, strenght +11, weapon +3, resulting in +26 to hit. The only way for you to confirm a crit against her is to roll a nat20 on your confirmation roll (if you use that rule at your table). So, statistically, your chances of succeeding are 1,25%. Now, I like a gamble myself, but not against those odds. If your table rules are that you have to exceed the enemy's AC to confirm a crit, you're unable to land a crit, ergo unable to one-shot her.
And yes, you are a paladin, which means lawful good, but that doesn't mean you're lawful stupid. You now know you can't kill her, therefor you should not attack her ;)
I have to correct you on my stats :D
BAB 12
Strength isn´t 11 anymore, because we could went shopping and got mythic tiers so its + 13 by now (I think, or +14, don´t have my character sheed on hand)
Weapon I can put up to +5 with my divine bond.
Weapon Focus 1
Mythic Weapon Focus 1
Smite (Charisma to attack which is +8 by now) 8
With Divine Power (oracle in group) is +4 at lvl 12, which equals +4 strength, attack and damage.
So my attackbonus is at 15(enhanced strength divine power)+12+5+1+1+8+4= 46
Her AC is 48. So i need a 2 to hit, with my scimitar (sarenrae´s favored weapon) and improved critical hit I have to roll a 15 for a crit-threat.
My damage is as follows:
15 strength x1,5 two handed = 22
mythic power attack (3 points +3 per 4 bab) = 12x1,5 two handed = 18
weapon 5
divine power 4
smite 24 (12, first hit against evil outsider x2)
= 21+18+5+4+24= 72+1d6 weapon
improved vital strike, mythic vital strike
=(1d6+73)*3 = 3d6+219
on a crit, which isn´t too far away, I would have a multiplier of 4, which would equal 12d6+876, by that point I don´t have to roll the dice, because Nocticula has "only" 774 HP (played by her stat block)
I know that it´s a dumb idea to attack her, but only by playing my stats I would destroy her. Without divine power (so all by myself) I would have 6 less on attack, so I would need an 8 to hit. My damage would be "lowered" to 12d6+792.
I feel bad about that stats, it feels like bragging about my character.
EDIT: At our table, if you have a potencial crit and cout hit her, you can try to confirm your roll, except on a nat 20, then you always crit.
In my case, I have to roll a 15 and then an 8 to hit again (confirm).
Duuuuuude, talking about being OP.
However!
I'm not gonna say you can't hit her or kill her (you obviously can), but think of the move economy.
You being a paladin doesn't make Nocticula all comfortable and at ease when you meet her. Therefore, she will be on edge and alert, maybe even readied on an action from your party (if your GM is playing with the intelligence of the monsters). I mean, if you draw your weapon (which is a must to attack), she won't be standing idly by.
Before you can actually attack her, you'll need to smite her (swift action) and activate your weapon (standard action), and then you've only got a move action left, you can't use mythic powers to get sudden attack or anything (already used your swift). This means it is now Nocticula's turn.....she can dominate you and have you attack your party (Party whipe with your damage output).
And besides, the oracle can't give you divine power, that spell is "personal" and can't be cast on party members, no mather how much you'd want it (I'm playing a rage prophet myself with divine power, everybody in the party wants some).
So, with taking the action economy into account, you can only attack her with a surprise or with a sudden attack, IF if you have your weapon drawn and she hasn't act upon your drawing. That means you already have to stand adjecent to her (surprise is only one standard action), otherwise you can't even attack in surprise, and no weapon activation, nor smite.
That leaves you still with a broken...I repeat, broken! to hit:
BAB 12, strength +13/14 (divine power doesn't enhance your stength), weapons focus +2, weapon +3= +30/31
It is possible to (crit)hit her, albeit a bit more difficult than you said and a bit less difficult than I said. I don't know which mythic paths you've taken or chosen which provide with some additional attack bonusses, and you can always use your mythic surge to make the confirmation roll exceed the AC, you roll a crit ;)
All that being said, it also really depends on the setting you meet with Nocticula and how well your GM plays villains. If she (Nocticula) lets you draw your weapon, if she lets you smite her, and lets you activate your weapon, AND let's you receive some buffs from your friendly oracle (any other buff besides Divine Power), then yeah...go for it brah!
I get your point
On her dominate: there is a mythic path ability called "pure destiny" which makes you immune to non mythic compulsions (which her dominate person is, unless we are in her realm, which we aren´t when we are visiting her, a.f.a.i.k.).
And her aura (DC 43 fortitude to make me loose my immunity to that kind of stuff, I have to roll like a 10 for it, with a hero point to reroll it with +8 its a 2 I need to not get fcked over by her and have to kill my party.
I could do most of the stuff, smiting (swift), attacking (vital strike, standard-action), move up to her (which is the most important stuff, we have a house rule, that now sounds op: you can draw your weapon when your moving if you have at least 1 BAB; it was introduced severeal years ago when another friend and me used to be noobs) and I could use another mythic power to take another standard-action (enhance my weapon or taking a smaller action, for example making the sudden attack for the bonus to attack).
This kind of possibility to get her down or get shut down is some kind of thrill, that I like about high CR/tough enemys. But just from a mechanical point, without mythic or some little tweaks as house rules, a normal character would die in her presence and even a mythic one w/o the house rule would get hurt badly. But I like this kind of thread in the forums, I wonder why I haven´t been here ever since I started playing pathfinder :D
It is a Pathfinder rule to draw a weapon during a movement with at BAB+1:
Normal: Without this feat, you may draw a weapon as a move action, or (if your base attack bonus is +1 or higher) as a free action as part of movement. Without this feat, you can draw a hidden weapon as a standard action.
And how high are your saves?!?! I mean, if you only have to roll a 10, that means your fort save is +33: +8 base, +8 charisma, +5 cloak(??), +12 CON!?
You no longer have the stats of a lvl 12 character, you have the stats of a CR20+ monster!! :')And as per rules of Hero Points (Found Here), you can only spend 1 HP per round (so either reroll, or a +8 luck bonus on the roll before the roll is made ((or a +4 after the roll is made)). Or spend 1 HP to get another standard or move action.
So yes, in combat you can move and draw weapon, smite, and attack. But before you are actually in combat, you'll get the surprise round (in which you only have 1 standard and 1 swift action), and IIRC surprise round doesn't count as a normal combat round for using hero points and mythic stuff. So during this surprise, you're still left with 1 standard and 1 swift. And if Nocticula is played well by your GM, she can act in the surprise round as well, or has already readied an action on anything you try to conjure as a plan. She has greater teleport as a SLA, so she should be prepared.
Like I said, you stats are over the roof, if your con is +12 that means you have at least 156 base hp, and a fort save of +33, so she has no options to one-shot you, before you can one-shot her. She has an INT and WIS of 35 and 32, respectfully, that means she is smart and wise enough to engage in combat directly, and needs to have some tricks up her sleeve when the meeting is about to take place.
So if you do decide to attack, and if you surivive the surprise round, it all comes down to the rolls of the next round. Do you have the initiative, do you make your saves (~50%), do you roll a crit, and do you confirm the thread. And who knows what kind of a plan your GM will conjure up, he might as well have Nocticula dominate your party members and have them attack you (they at least lack the +8 divine grace bonus :') ) or even kidnap them or hold them hostage, then every movement you make will result in the death of party member.
My stats are over the rooftop, I pretty much got the gold of two characters, because the oracle didn’t care much, he just wanted a good weapon and his important stats boosted (charisma+strength). Base 8+8 charisma+5 cloak+2 protection against evil (my GM allowed it permanently)+ 10 con= 33, I need a 10 for the dominate :D
HP= 10x12 (con) 120
5 mythic ranks (champion) 5 each = 25
Toughness, we can put favored class and human bonus into HP = 3x12= 36 HP
= 181 and in the 12 levels my d10 hp rolls have been good, so I have smth like 250-270 HP, she likely has to crit every roll on full damage to really kill me. That’s why I am that confident on killing her. It takes another week or two until we play WotR again, because right now I’m gming Curse of the Crimson Throne for my group :D
Fyi: my will is 8 base +5 cloak +2 protection vs evil +8 charisma + 5 or 6 wisdom and reflex is 6 dex +5 cloak +2 protection + 8 charisma = 21, I know its insanse :D but my GM did let it happen, because he wanted us to have fun on maxing characters in WotR
The resistance bonus from protection from evil and the cloak don't stack.
I haven't played Wrath of the Righteous, but I do know that the Mythic system can be broken pretty easily. Add in higher than expected stats and wealth and yes, you will probably have a pretty easy time with the game. Using out of character knowledge (I would be surprised if your character had a way to know all the details of Nocticula) of course will make it even easier.
Personally, I wouldn't consider that to be very much fun, so you might consider talking with your GM and group about ways to either tone down your characters or up the challenge of your enemies. Of course what is fun for me might not be what is fun for you and your group, and if that is fun, more power to you.
Thanks for you reply. Seems like I misread that bonus from protection, its clearer in the english srd (I’m not from a native-english-speaking country, in our rule reference there are no hints on the bonus-type). I already talked to him, he said he would change the encounter a bit, so there would be no need to attack nor the temptation in doing so. I’m curious and hopefully soon find out what he has planned.
The characters don’t know what they are facing next (if I remember the hints and clues correctly) but from a character view with something that is demonic and evil, the best medicine for that was to strike fast and strike hard, never got a problem with that. I also think he misread some of the future books because he keeps telling me, that we won’t kill any demon lords, but, without trying to find something, there are threads about how easy the fight against baphomet went for example. I hope he lets us/me use that absurd power for something other than some slightly above CR 20 things except the storm lord. If not those investmens could have gone into more stylish stuff like a flying carpet or something, not raw power/stats.
Why a player read the future of your adventure path?
Dude what happen if nocticula try to dominate you and whatever you roll you fail only because you GM decided to do so?
What happen if you attack and kill Nocticula only to find that it was a simulacrum or a clone?
I personally advise you to not ruin your own fun, taking it ease in building you character and discover what happen in the Adventure Path playing it and not reading it first.
I haven’t read it, my GM decided to tell me about it. I already expect it to be something that she isn’t truly there. I also wasn’t trying to build towards that, it just happened with the mythic rules and the bunch of equipment/gold we got thrown at with. I also told my GM I want to play it, regardless of the outcome or how he designed it, because it takes away the important part of the game: playing it. That’s what I want and like to do. I just hope he doesn’t do smth just because my character is there, because he already fudged the HP, AC, attacks and damage of mobs (told me by himself without me asking) just because my character was there. With just the other characters in the encounters he did it in, he wouldn’t have done it. I understand that to some extend, but taking the HP of a monster x10 for one character or gving it +10 ac/attack and some more damage isn’t that understandable for me.