need clarification on double slice 0 / 0 / -10(0 / -5 / -5) or 0 / -5 / -10 any devs?


Classes


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

question I have is double slice way I am reading you make both attacks at current multi attack penalty so say you its your 1st set of attacks as long as offhand agile my bonus is +10 normal so I make my rapier/shortsword attacks at +10/+10 my last attack with shortsword is(-8) so is at +2. my dm is interpreting the feat as only for dr so r/s/s +10/+6/+2 anyone have ruling on this. if I was using 2 rapiers would be +10/+8+/+0 any feedback would be awesome. one way seems bit powerful other way completely useless considering its a lvl 1 feat and you don't c DR till much higher lvls


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Double Slice is pretty clear:

Quote:
Make one Strike (see page 308) with each of your two melee weapons, each at your current multiple attack penalty. The second Strike takes a –2 circumstance penalty if it’s made with a weapon that doesn’t have the agile trait

So if you use your first two actions to double slice, and you are using an agile weapon with at least one of your two hands, then you will attack at +0/+0; if you strike then double slice, it's -5/-5; etc.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

any devs can wade in clarify please


As cabbage mentioned, the feat is extremely clear. Both attacks are made at your current MAP at the time you initiate the maneuver. So if you start with double slice and finish with a regular attack, it's +0/+0/-10. If for some reason you make a regular attack first then double slice second, it's +0/-5/-5.

Your GM may be confusing it with how Flurry of Blows works. Flurry does in fact take MAP on the second attack. This is the price Flurry pays for only costing one action, compared to the two actions it costs to use Double Slice.


It's unlikely any paizo staff are going to clarify something that's already that clear, particularly on a Sunday


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the feat pretty clearly states that it's at +0/+0/-8

tell your GM to compare it's wording to something like flurry or the new twin takedown feat for ranger.

those indeed do it like 0/-4/-8 but Double slice has the wording that

Quote:

Make one Strike (see page 308) with each of your two melee weapons, each at your current

multiple attack penalty

that's why double slice costs 2 actions while flurry and twin takedown costs 1 action.

Dark Archive

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Designer Mark Seifter refers to Double Strike here as an ability that avoids the multiple attack penalty:

Mark Seifter wrote:
When it should be the same, we can make it the same. But a lot of time it's better for a class to have something a little different. For instance, ranger might do well with something other than Double Strike for TWF that saves actions instead of avoiding multiple attack penalty, based on their mobile fighting style and their Hunt Target ability.

If it used your normal multiple attack penalty, it wouldn't be considered as an action that "avoided" the penalty. There would also be no need for the final line of text stating that it counts as two attacks for the multiple attack penalty if it functioned as normal.


Belcedric wrote:
any devs can wade in clarify please

They did. In a stream. Like three weeks ago.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
Draco18s wrote:
Belcedric wrote:
any devs can wade in clarify please
They did. In a stream. Like three weeks ago.

do youhave a link for my dm by chance please


I don't see why you require a direct statement from a Dev on this, since there is no ambiguity in it whatsoever.


Belcedric wrote:
Draco18s wrote:
Belcedric wrote:
any devs can wade in clarify please
They did. In a stream. Like three weeks ago.
do youhave a link for my dm by chance please

I'm on a slow-ass laptop, but its one of the Friday streams:

https://www.twitch.tv/officialpaizo

Pretty sure it was with Jason answering questions.

(I'm not going to scrub through 3 or 4 different 1 hour streams on this POS computer; I can't even alt-tab to look at the rulebook sometimes!)

Paizo Employee Customer Service Representative

Merged Duplicate Threads


I feel like this thread is now null since Double Slice was trashed in 1.3 :P


Only for rangers. Fighters still have it, and it works as originally written: no MAP until after.

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