How can I help my player abandon his first class?


Running the Game

Grand Lodge

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One of my players was playing an cleric in Chapter 1 and his building out his character for Chapter 4. Due to events with Pharasma in Chapter 1, his character wanted to abandon his deity for Pharasma and become a wizard. Not multiclass as a wizard, but dedicate himself to wizardry.

The deity change is doable with retraining, since it's a "selectable class option". However, I don't know how to do the class change in general. In PF1 this character would just be a Cleric 1 / Wizard 8 character. That's not possible with PF2 as far as I can see.

Do any of your know how this is done in PF2? If it's not, this is definitely something I find lacking in the rules. I thought my player was taking a very cool roleplaying element to make an interesting character, but I'm kinda blocked here at the moment.


The best solution I can see is retraining. It doesn't do the cleric 1/wizard 8 element but would simply make it a wizard 9 instead. How long this process would take is hard to imagine; but I assume it would take a pretty long time. But there is nothing RAW that stops a person from retraining their class as far as I can tell, only background and heritage is impossible to change.

In normal gameplay that takes a level at a time there is no way to get that into another character progression to that extend except for taking all the archetype feats for that class, but you still get your other progress in your starting class.

EDIT: Missed the rules page 318, so disregard the post


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Playtest Rulebook Pg. 318 wrote:

RETRAINING Retraining offers a way to alter some of your character options, which can be helpful when you want to grow your character in a new direction or simply change decisions that weren’t as interesting or effective as you expected. The three things you can retrain are feats (except heritage feats), skill proficiencies and increases, and selectable class features (like wizard schools or sorcerer spells known).

You cannot retrain your ancestry, background, or class.

Emphasis mine. Can't retrain class levels PF2 (was allowed in PF1). No matter what your player does, that character is locked into being and advancing as a cleric.

The closest you could get would likely be to make a new character that is a wizard, and spend a feat or two on cleric dedication stuff to simulate his prior devotion.


Whoops my bad. I was reading the retraining section page 334-335 (that only list background and heritage). You are absolutely right Requielle.

Grand Lodge

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Requielle wrote:
Playtest Rulebook Pg. 318 wrote:

RETRAINING Retraining offers a way to alter some of your character options, which can be helpful when you want to grow your character in a new direction or simply change decisions that weren’t as interesting or effective as you expected. The three things you can retrain are feats (except heritage feats), skill proficiencies and increases, and selectable class features (like wizard schools or sorcerer spells known).

You cannot retrain your ancestry, background, or class.

Emphasis mine. Can't retrain class levels PF2 (was allowed in PF1). No matter what your player does, that character is locked into being and advancing as a cleric.

The closest you could get would likely be to make a new character that is a wizard, and spend a feat or two on cleric dedication stuff to simulate his prior devotion.

Yeah, creating a new character "works" in the playtest because the play for this character isn't continuous, but it doesn't quite work if we were actually playing the character through. If I wasn't trying to evaluate the RAW I would just have him retrain into a Wizard with a Cleric dedication.

I do want to highlight this use case for Paizo as a deficiency with multiclassing in PF2. My character is trying to tell a cool and interesting story but can't do that with the RAW.


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Requielle wrote:
Playtest Rulebook Pg. 318 wrote:

RETRAINING Retraining offers a way to alter some of your character options, which can be helpful when you want to grow your character in a new direction or simply change decisions that weren’t as interesting or effective as you expected. The three things you can retrain are feats (except heritage feats), skill proficiencies and increases, and selectable class features (like wizard schools or sorcerer spells known).

You cannot retrain your ancestry, background, or class.

Emphasis mine. Can't retrain class levels PF2 (was allowed in PF1). No matter what your player does, that character is locked into being and advancing as a cleric.

The closest you could get would likely be to make a new character that is a wizard, and spend a feat or two on cleric dedication stuff to simulate his prior devotion.

You got that from "Playing the Game", in the player's section. However,

Playtest Rulebook Pg. 334 wrote:
You determine whether a character can get the proper training or whether something can be retrained at all.

This bit is from the GM's guides on retraining. The only things that are explicitly called out as impossible to retrain, here, are Backgrounds and Ancestries.

Specific trumps general, or, in this case, GM guide trumps player guide.

Clearly players shouldn't expect to retrain stuff beyond regular guidelines, but GMs have authority to allow exceptions.


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Yes, GMs have the authority - in home campaigns - to allow retraining of anything. I can allow my players to retrain into being a party of sentient russian nesting dolls, if that works for us.

That said, it is likely that PFS won't have GM discretion, because they can't and maintain a consistent play experience. So testing RAW is of significant value for Paizo and for the players who participate in PFS.

Also said, we aren't playtesting Hurká's GM discretion, or his houserules. If the RAW need to be handwaved away in order to have a good gaming experience, Paizo should probably know that.


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With the way that classes work in this edition, retraining a character's class is effectively impossible from a mechanical perspective not just the written rules forbidding it.

So discarding the rule forbidding retraining of the class for the moment. Houserule/handwave it away for the time being.

I think the best thing to do would be to rebuild the character at the same level with the new class, taking the multiclass dedication feat as early as possible, and taking as many of the multiclass feats as is feasible. Effectively creating the character to be as much of the original class as is possible. Then allow the player to retrain away as many of the multiclass feats as desired per the normal retraining rules.

I do agree that this needs to be brought forward. This is a hole in the character creation mechanics that should at least have an official alternate rule available for home games even if it is not allowed in society play.

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