The fact that Armour Check Penalty decreases with Magic Armour should be better advertised


Skills, Feats, Equipment & Spells


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I know that it's a new system and there are a lot of little things to be absorbed and learned, but this little nugget was hard to find (page 190). Fighters getting some breathing room for ACPs as they get higher-level armour, or Rogues being able to upgrade to light/medium armour without sacrificing skills. I think some reminders in the Magic armour section, not just in the regular equipment section, would help emphasize this point. Also, more exposure to the Expert/Master/Legendary quality of items in general.


Just checked: it's under the "Runes" section, clear as day. DOH!


Your talking about the quality effect? It's not very much at all. And almost pointless for heavy armors. Expert quality is -1. Master (a whopping -2) costs at least 360gp, assuming no special materials. You don't get 360gp on the treasure chart until level 11. Outside of shields, there are not any master quality armor on the treasure charts until lvl 11 loot, where +3 magic armor shows up (which would have to be master to get a +3 rune). Its good for light armor and for medium armor a -2 to any check you are trained in and intended to do frequently is crippling.

Most people wanting to take heavy armor want to do it well before that, and the penalty for halfplate is -4. Even with expert a -3 to your skill checks is ghastly, pretty much turns you form trained to untrained.

With how "tight" the math is for combat, the effects of medium and heavy armors is pretty crippling on physical skills.


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Joey Cote wrote:
You don't get 360gp on the treasure chart until level 11.

Or you select it as a 3rd or 4th level item, which you get at 4th or 5th level.


Draco18s wrote:
Joey Cote wrote:
You don't get 360gp on the treasure chart until level 11.
Or you select it as a 3rd or 4th level item, which you get at 4th or 5th level.

You must be thinking of Expert and/or +1 potency.

Master item level is 7th.


At level 8 you have a level 7 item, it can be a +2 master-quality armor.

i don't understand why +2 expert-quality armors exist at all, since the wbl work by item level (instead of price) and an increase of quality doesn't increase the item level. I guess there's a super-secret-special rule somewhere.


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Gaterie wrote:

At level 8 you have a level 7 item, it can be a +2 master-quality armor.

i don't understand why +2 expert-quality armors exist at all, since the wbl work by item level (instead of price) and an increase of quality doesn't increase the item level. I guess there's a super-secret-special rule somewhere.

I thought the magic items on the table were always the minimum quality for their effect. So the +2 on the table WOULD be expert. The +3 however comes with Master because you have to have a Master item to accept a +3 bonus.


Hmm, I think that since there are 360gp items on the level 7 chart, you should be able to take a standard master quality item then instead of level 11 like I originally said.


StratoNexus wrote:
Draco18s wrote:
Joey Cote wrote:
You don't get 360gp on the treasure chart until level 11.
Or you select it as a 3rd or 4th level item, which you get at 4th or 5th level.

You must be thinking of Expert and/or +1 potency.

Master item level is 7th.

Touche. Still not a level 11 thing (only 8th).


Gaterie wrote:

At level 8 you have a level 7 item, it can be a +2 master-quality armor.

i don't understand why +2 expert-quality armors exist at all, since the wbl work by item level (instead of price) and an increase of quality doesn't increase the item level. I guess there's a super-secret-special rule somewhere.

You are misunderstanding something about the way wealth works.

At level 8, what you have depends on whether you have just freshly built the character at that level (in which case you use table 11-2: Character Wealth) or you have reached that level by playing up to it (in which case you have your character's share of what the GM has handed out according to table 11-1: Party Treasure by Level).

And in either of those cases, you would still need to actually have been given or chosen both the master quality armor and +2 armor potency rune (two 7th-level items, not one), because you don't just get free bonuses because combining different items together doesn't artificially crank up item level.


thenobledrake wrote:
because you don't just get free bonuses because combining different items together doesn't artificially crank up item level.

The +magic isn't relevant here. It's the Expert/Master quality that reduces ACP.

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