What are considered known spells?


Rules Questions


Technically I'm looking at what is considered you knowing a spell so you can create a scroll of it when you are a sorcerer(/you just know the spells).

(The specific situation I'm looking at is what spells can I make into spell-scars when using eldritch scion-magus and sorcerer)


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AFAIK, the set of sorcerer spells a sorcerer can scribe into a scroll (barring some external source of said spell) is equivalent to the set containing the sorcerer's spells known. I assume the same is the case for an eldritch scion since it's basically a magus using sorcerer rules instead of wizard rules.

Is there a particular eldritch scion or bloodline ability that introduces some ambiguity into the mix?


Well any class with the VMC magus can take spell scars as a magus arcana, so this could effect a wide variety of classes and situations. I know I was planning on subscribing some "scrolls" I accessed through spell kenning with my skald VMC magus. I don't know what the answer is per say, though I think blahpers is probably on the right track with it being anything you could scribe as a scroll. I am interested to here more input from the community though.


So to answer the question I think the OP wants to ask: By yourself you can make Spell-scars of the spells you can already cast spontaneously. i.e. the 2 or so spells you select every level.

If you want to add spells you can't normally cast you need to find some other caster with the spell you want, and it has to be on the Magus list. If you do that you can scribe spell-scars of spells you don't already know. The rules for doing this are in the magic item creation rules in the core rulebook.

Its also possible for you to add spell-scars of spells magus can't cast. You'll need Use Magic Device and you'll have to cast them like normal scrolls of spell from other classes, not by using your spell slots.


BadDesperado wrote:

Technically I'm looking at what is considered you knowing a spell so you can create a scroll of it when you are a sorcerer(/you just know the spells).

(The specific situation I'm looking at is what spells can I make into spell-scars when using eldritch scion-magus and sorcerer)

knowing a spell for a sorcerer refers to the table in the CRB in the sorcerer class entitled "spells known". This means it is a spell castable using your spell slots. A sorcerer can gain known spells via bloodlines, magic items(Page of Spell Knowledge, etc), and possibly traits, racial feats, feats, class abilities etc.

Creating a scroll requires Scribe Scroll.

Eldritch Scion is a Magus archtype. That would restrict your spells to the Magus list and bloodline additions. The "Bard Spells Known" chart is used in conjunction with the Magus spell list. It's a mishmash of the two classes.

Spell Scars is a magus arcana and runs off the magus spell list and the magus class levels for castable spells. The sorcerer class is totally separate and spells from the sorcerer class don't qualify for spell scars.
Meirril listed other options.
You would have to talk to your GM to get a wavier from RAW on using the Sorcerer spells.


No where does spell scars say that the "scrolls" must be on the magus spell list.


A multiclass magus can scribe a spell scar of a spell from another spellcasting class, just as a wizard who gains scribe scroll as a bonus feat from can scribe druid scrolls if they later take levels in druid.

If you're looking for a way to use spell scars to expand your spells known, that isn't a thing. Spell scars are basically scroll/spellbook page combos. You can cast a spell from a spell scar exactly like it was a scroll, or you can use the scar to prepare a spell as though the scar was a part of your spellbook containing the spell. Sorcerers and eldritch scions do not prepare spells, so the latter benefit is of no use to them.


Agreed, but it can be very nice to keep what is basically an extra spell slot handy even if you don't get the full benefit that a prepared caster does.


baggageboy wrote:
No where does spell scars say that the "scrolls" must be on the magus spell list.

Reference the leading text to Magus Arcana, "As he gains levels, a magus learns arcane secrets tailored to his specific way of blending martial puissance and magical skill. ... Magus arcana that affect spells can only be used to modify spells from the magus spell list unless otherwise noted."

Since Spell Scars is a Magus Arcana with no other spell list noted, it is restricted to the Magus Spell list.

more restricted than I thought at first.


I believe the text you are referring to doesn't actually apply to spell scars though I can understand your reasoning. Spell scars doesn't modify any spells, it has a sperate effect that is related to spells. I believe the text your refering to is intended to apply to acana such as quickened magic. You can't use such arcana with other spells from other spell lists.


Hmm. I could see that going either way.


I'd have to say that spell-scars is explicit in saying that it follows the rules for Scribe Scroll. As such, it should be able to go beyond the Magus spell list as long as the creator follows those rules and limitations.

And in no way does Spell-scars modify the spells scribed. With or without this magus arcana you can't create a scroll that has a magus arcana modificatin to a spell (as in you can't create a scroll that makes a spell into a touch spell, or sudden anything).


It's definitely on the edge, tricky rules lawyering could go either way.


in PFS I'd say no. In a home game there's more leeway.

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