Armory - Weapon Accessories - Sights - Does the sights work with Operative Trick Attack


Rules Questions


If you are using a small arm with a sight added to it, could you still trick attack with the small arm using the sight if you do use the move to move?

You can move as part of the Trick Attack, and the sight states:

"As a move action, you can aim through a sight. This
can be done as part of the same move action as is required to
aim a weapon with the sniper weapon special quality, or as part
of a sneak attack where you do not take any movement even
if you also aim a sniper weapon as part of that action." Page 61 of the Armory.


no I don't think so, if your using your move to move your not using it to aim in either way ....you can trick attack and move, or trick attack and aim, but you can't move and aim with the same action....also moving(your enemies movement or your own) spoils your aim anyway


So, the wording here is a bit confusing.

I am inclined to agree with Xoshak, however the part that gives me pause is the part of the scope description that says "sneak attack". As far as a I know there's no sneak attack in Starfinder. The equivalent in Starfinder is the operative's trick attack.

As a result let's look at the wording for Trick Attack and see what it contains.

"As a full action, you can move up to your speed. Whether or not you moved, you can then make an attack with a melee weapon with the operative special property or with any small arm. Just before making your attack, attempt a Bluff, Intimidate, or Stealth check (or a check associated with your specialization; see page 94) with a DC equal to 20 + your target’s CR."

So this is a full action. It allows you to move up to your speed. You then make an attack with a specific weapon type (operative or small arm) and you may attempt a skill check to increase the damage.

The scope description reads that you could forego the move action that is part of the trick attack and replace it with the aim "action" that is part of the usage of the sight.

This is a tough call. It also implies that operatives are somehow able to make a trick attack with a sniper weapon. i don't remember any sniper weapons that have the operative description.

Yea, I think a move or aim action sounds fair, but not both.

However, it states sneak attack which isn't part of the operatives abilities though I think we can safely assume that's the intent.


Magyar5... Operatives get a exploit that lets them trick attack with a sniper weapon but they don't get the extra damage (special effects only)

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Subscriber

It has already been clarified that where sneak attack is written you should read trick attack.

Though the answer is still no if you move you cannot also aim, even if you have the operative tricks to use sniper rifles with trick attack.


Thank you everyone for helping with this.

As long as I do not move I can use the sights during my trick attack to get their effects.


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

There are ways to get the extra aim range without needing to spend a move action.


I would love to have the Tactical Scaffold, but it only fits on Heavy armor and I only use Light Armor. Heavy Armor comes with too many down sides for an Operative.

Though I may have to consider it for some of my other characters, thank you.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

An operative can just take the Fast Aim exploit.

Also, I just noticed for the first time that the operative exploit that allows you to trick attack with sniper weapons is missing any provision about allowing you to trick attack with unwieldy weapons. I think we can safely assume that it was intended to do so, since all core sniper rifles are unwieldy, but read strictly, the exploit has a serious problem.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Subscriber
HammerJack wrote:

An operative can just take the Fast Aim exploit.

Also, I just noticed for the first time that the operative exploit that allows you to trick attack with sniper weapons is missing any provision about allowing you to trick attack with unwieldy weapons. I think we can safely assume that it was intended to do so, since all core sniper rifles are unwieldy, but read strictly, the exploit has a serious problem.

That was solved a while ago in the FAQ, so don't worry about unwieldy sniper rifles :)


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Ah, good. Missed that one.


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Why would an operative then need the Fast Aim exploit? For use with non-trick attacks I guess?


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

What do you mean? It just gives them full sniper range without using an action to aim. It only ever affects sniper rifles. But if you want full sniper range without using the move action while wearing light armor, it does the trick. And it does allow you to move while engaging in ultra-long range combat.

EDIT: For some reason I read that question as "non sniper rifles." Not "non-trick attacks." Did you edit it, or are my eyes glitching?


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Hehe, yeah, I edited it once I looked up Fast Aim and saw that it only applied to sniper rifles.

Debilitating Sniper says the following:
You can use trick attack with sniper weapons. You do not add trick attack damage to your attack, but the target is still flatfooted, and you can use debilitating tricks.

The FAQ for Debilitating Sniper says the following:
If you have debilitating sniper, or any other special ability that specifically allows you to use trick attack with a sniper weapon, using trick attack with a sniper rifle counts as taking a move action to aim the weapon to use the range increment listed in the sniper weapon special ability. You can do this even with unwieldy sniper weapons.

Fast Aim says the following:
As long as you are not flat-footed, off-kilter, or off-target, when attacking with a sniper rifle you use the range increment value listed with the sniper special property.

The FAQ makes it clear that you can aim as part of the full round action it takes to Trick Attack when using a sniper rifle. Aiming is what gives you the increased range. With that FAQ clarification, why would anyone ever take the more limited Fast Aim over Debilitating Sniper?

The only time it would matter that I can think of, is if you are full attacking with a sniper rifle that lacks the unwieldy property (of which I think only one exists right now) while in a situation where you could actually take advantage of the increased range.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Well, if you took both, you could move back while sniping, to make it incredibly difficult to close to normal weapon range, since an operative with some augmentation can have a really dramatic move speed.


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

What? But you can move when trick attacking...and trick attacking lets you aim when you have debilitating sniper...so what am I missing?


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

You were missing the part where I remembered the scope's requirement of no movement during the trick attack, and misremembered it as a requirement for using the long range on a sniping trick attack.

At least I could have sworn it was in there, though I can't find any sign of it, now.

Sovereign Court

I read that as using the move action in the trick attack to aim, instead of actually moving, meaning you would have to remain stationary, which fast aim negates.


yea..it was actually clearer to me before the errata because now it does imply you could aim as part of your movement for a standard movement based trick attack...and even if it cancels the aim because your not standing still(and that's debatable because the trick attack itself triggers a aim now...so it's a matter of when) you could still get the range from Fast aim, you just couldn't use the scope


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Can you use a sight to aim a small arm as part of your trick attack at all?

If the text states:

"or as part 
of a sneak attack where you do not take any movement even 
if you also aim a sniper weapon as part of that action."

Does this mean it only applies to sniper weapons?


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

No.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
HammerJack wrote:
No.

No, it doesn't just apply to sniper weapons or no, you can't use it to aim with small arms as part of the trick attack?


No you can't use it to aim with small arms as part of the trick attack. You have no move action for aiming in that circumstance, trick attack is just a full action that combines the attack, the trick attack check/effect, and optional movement. You can't substitute aiming for that movement.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

No, it doesn't mean only sniper weapons.

Aiming through a sight can be done:

1) as a move action
2) as part of the move action of aiming a sniper rifle for long range
3) as part of a trick attack, which may or may not involve aiming a sniper rifle, and may or may not involve a sniper rifle at all

There is no need for a move action to give up, since it is stated that the sight can be used as part of the full action, if you are not moving. The statement that this is the case "even if you are aiming a sniper weapon" is inclusive of the snpier application, not exclusive of the small arms application.


you're not giving up your move action you're just giving up the ability to move as part of a full round action

Which is a lot like giving up your move...


There have been other cases (in dev posts) where it was made clear that "sneak attack" is generally a mistyped reference when they mean trick attack.

Edit: Here it is, it's even explicitly about Armory. So yes, sights work with trick attack.

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