What Does a Deity-less Spiritual Weapon Look Like?


Skills, Feats, Equipment & Spells


Angelic and Demonic Sorcerers can cast Spiritual Weapon without having a deity. What does their Spiritual Weapon look like?

Edit: For that matter, what would such a Sorcerer's Spiritual Guardians be holding?


The question extends to Bards and Aberrant Sorcerers as spiritual weapon is an occult spell.


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Tectorman wrote:
Angelic and Demonic Sorcerers can cast Spiritual Weapon without having a deity. What does their Spiritual Weapon look like?

Exactly like an atheist's holy symbol...

JK

Me, I make it look like a big empty fist. Sort of a Bigby's Spiritual Weapon. Or if you really want to be insulting while you kill them, make it a big open hand that slaps them around like a, well, like a person getting slapped around.

Shadow Lodge

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I like to imagine a bard's Spiritual Weapon as the literal sheet music, wafting around to slap the target.


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Bards: Giant, ghostly guitar shaped like an axe.


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Jack Black wielding the Pick of Destiny and the Axe Guitar from Brutal Legend.

On a more serious note. Doesn't have P1's wording about alignment type making weapons type?

huh. I assume its up to them. make it whatever they themselves beleivei n most?

could totally end up being their mom or them. or a flask of beer.


Wonderful, thanks for pointing this out it fits perfectly into my lore for sorcs.

I'd probably ask a player when they pick the spell, or when they first cast it.


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It also might be that the spell is only supposed to work for characters with deities, a hidden prerequisite of sorts. I don't terribly want it to be this, but it could be.


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PF1E's Spiritual Weapon text wrote:

The weapon that you get is often a force replica of your deity’s own personal weapon. A cleric without a deity gets a weapon based on his alignment. A neutral cleric without a deity can create a spiritual weapon of any alignment, provided he is acting at least generally in accord with that alignment at the time. The weapons associated with each alignment are as follows:

  • chaos (battleaxe)
  • evil (light flail)
  • good (warhammer)
  • law (longsword)
  • Obviously, that's not officially how it works in 2E, but it's at least consistent with how it supposedly has been working in Golarion to date.


    Paradozen wrote:
    It also might be that the spell is only supposed to work for characters with deities, a hidden prerequisite of sorts. I don't terribly want it to be this, but it could be.

    It's not hidden. The spell outright states that you must worship a deity to be able to cast it.

    What's more, the spell uses your proficiency with the weapon in question with your casting ability modifier. This makes it very bad for many non-clerics, even those who worship deities, because they don't necessarily get proficiency with their deity's favored weapon. We ran into this problem today during playtest when the Shelyn-worshiping bard cast spiritual weapon, and we realized that bards are not proficient with glaives. We decided to retcon it so the character in question instead worshiped Cayden Cailean which gave him a rapier instead, which bards are proficient in.

    IMO, the spell should use your proficiency with spellcasting + your casting modifier instead, thereby bypassing the issue. That way you could say that it takes the form of a weapon of your choice, and if you worship a deity the form is always of that deity's favored weapon.


    That's an issue with spells in general. It would be better if TAC doesn't exist at all, and casters just use their casting modifier and attack AC like everyone else.


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    Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
    Fuzzypaws wrote:
    That's an issue with spells in general. It would be better if TAC doesn't exist at all, and casters just use their casting modifier and attack AC like everyone else.

    I always liked touch AC, but the more I think about it as time goes on, if we're going to have bother a spell roll modifier, then I think this approach is just the best way to handle it, both for rules simplicity as a whole and for option efficacy. For those things (like shocking grasp) where it's appropriate, providing a bonus to the spell roll vs regular AC is pretty much the same as providing the bonus to a non-spell roll vs TAC. The more I look at it, the more it feels entirely redundant.

    And for the occasional effect that uses TAC where you don't particularly care what part of the enemy you touch, or whether you actually touch them or their armor, the current system can model that adequately by having some amount of effect on a failed (but not critically failed) spell roll.

    It looks to me like the spell roll is vastly underutilized, and I strongly suspect that TAC is to blame for that.


    Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

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    Leedwashere wrote:
    And for the occasional effect that uses TAC where you don't particularly care what part of the enemy you touch, or whether you actually touch them or their armor, the current system can model that adequately by having some amount of effect on a failed (but not critically failed) spell roll.

    Or go the 4e/5e route of using Reflex saves instead for such effects.

    As a bonus, that would get rid of the weird concept of "ranged touch attacks". I mean, I know what it means (a ranged attack targeting touch AC), but every time I've played with someone new and mentioned ranged touch attacks they have gone "What?"


    Staffan Johansson wrote:
    It's not hidden. The spell outright states that you must worship a deity to be able to cast it.

    Huh, I could've sworn I'd searched the spell thoroughly for it and found nothing, but then I look again and it's right there in the requirements. I guess that answers that question.

    That's a shame, another houserule for me to add I suppose.

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