Polymorphing your expectations


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Alien Archive 2 presents a suite of new spells and rules that allow polymorphing. This thread is meant to act as a discussion of those rules, specifically what your initial impressions are, whether you think there is room for abuse, how you might plan to use it, what some of the optimal PC choices are, etc.

For me, I must say I'm quite surprised at the complexity and sheer range of versatility of the system. Structured somewhat similarly to the Summon Creature spell's rules, it grants a LOT of options. What's more, it seems to be open-ended, so it will grow in power as new creatures and races are added to the game. It also has a great many restrictions and rules to keep it in check.

Navigating over eight pages of cool options and red tape on the subject is definitely going to be something you do out of game. It's clear that you're meant to put in the hard work at level up, jot down some notes on the choices you want, then when it comes time to game, it's as simple as looking at a secondary truncated stat block.

Your polymorph form choices are set in stone until you level up (you get four per level of the spell you can cast) and can emulate existing creatures (even specific characters and creatures) or be an amalgam of abilities of some strange horror you just made up from your imagination.

At a glance, it looks like there will be a lot of good and bad to come out of this (mostly good though I think).


Ravingdork wrote:
This thread is meant to act as a discussion of those rules, specifically what your initial impressions are, whether you think there is room for abuse, how you might plan to use it, what some of the optimal PC choices are, etc.

After reading the spell i spent some time going through and reading through races for fun traits to steal. A few that I think are pretty strong or interesting are:

  • Orc's Conditioned trait (granting a +1 to a stat which circumvent's the restriction on racial bonuses, plus a bonus to any skill of your choice)
  • SRO's Robotic trait (a bunch of immunities and also the fun fluff of becoming a robot without needing access to the Construct type)
  • Elebrian's Intellectual Knack and Find Weakness (a bonus to attacks and the ability to take 20 on Knowledge checks respectively)
  • Contemplative's Psychic Senses and Applied Knowledge (using Knowledge on a Save and Darkvision + Blindsense)

And these are only by dipping into the playable races. I can't wait to see what kind of things GM's are gonna let players snag by imitating monsters.

Ultimately this spell is strong but also very flavorful and it limits itself to just a small handful of forms. Which i think is pretty good because it allows you to make fun stuff without the GM having to worry about approving 50 million different forms.


What is the level range on the polymorph spells and their duration?


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Xenocrat wrote:
What is the level range on the polymorph spells and their duration?

1-6, with each level granting access to more possible abilities and wider arrays of creature types. You can have 4 forms to choose from per spell level and it lasts for 1 minute per caster level.

Scarab Sages

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Don't forget baleful polymorph, and it's 1-6 options! It goes from minor inconvenience to terrible consequence after a few consecutively failed saves; bravo to the devs for making it immediately satisfying, but still useful!


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I for one love the permanent (D) duration on the later level baleful polymorphs. Great for roleplaying.


This line of spells sounds like pretty much an auto-pick for Xenodruid Mystics. Especially since they already have the Animal Adaptation class feature, so you can add some shapeshifting on top of your shapeshifting.


Is it technomancer/mystic or only mystic?


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Ravingdork wrote:
I for one love the permanent (D) duration on the later level baleful polymorphs. Great for roleplaying.

Not even all that later, you can get a permanent debuff even from just the level 3 version.


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Garretmander wrote:
Is it technomancer/mystic or only mystic?

It's both. However, only the technomancer can take on construct forms and only the mystic can take on plant forms.


That's interesting, does that mean I could permanently polymorph an undead minion into a true construct?


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One thing I'd point out: If the baleful goes permenant duration, and then another shape shift ability is used on it, it cancels out the oldest ability.


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Yeah, not much use as anything other than a one round debuff against shapechangers.

Still, I'm more concerned with how personal shapechanging works. It's still not clear to me how many options one gets, and where they are pulled from.


Ravingdork wrote:

Yeah, not much use as anything other than a one round debuff against shapechangers.

Still, I'm more concerned with how personal shapechanging works. It's still not clear to me how many options one gets, and where they are pulled from.

If you mean for abilities, you get the same number as an Expert of a CR based on the spell level would get (so check the table in AA1 for that.)


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Thanks, but I got that far on my own at least.

You get the following number of abilities, based on what it is you're casting:

.
No | CR | Spell
----------------------------
01 | 01 | polymorph I
02 | 03 | polymorph II
02 | 06 | polymorph III
02 | 09 | polymorph IV
03 | 12 | polymorph V
03 | 15 | polymorph VI

If you aren't making up some melting pot, fevered dream monstrosity, but limiting yourself to a known creature's abilities, you can select one additional ability. So the highest possible is 4 abilities.

The question is, what qualifies as "abilities" in regards to the polymorph spell? The book doesn't clearly define what is or is not an ability that you can choose for the purposes of your polymorph form.

Is vision an ability? Land speeds? Other movement modes?

The book gives you a list of abilities, but it isn't the least bit clear on whether or not that is the list you choose your abilities from.

The example forms given also don't seem to match what the rules say. Several of the lower level ones seem to have more than four abilities, while many of the higher level examples don't seem like they are poaching all of the abilities they could be.

If a developer could give a handful of examples of how one would build a polymorph form (not just the final example) that might help to clear things up a little bit. More importantly though, we need to know precisely what abilities we can and cannot select with our polymorph forms, and which abilities/stats we get for free, if any.


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The Artificer wrote:
That's interesting, does that mean I could permanently polymorph an undead minion into a true construct?

No, because only Baleful Polymorph can achieve a permanent result, and it does not change character type ( exception: high level ones can transform the victim into a Small, helpless, Animal, if they fail enough saves ). They've pretty well designed Baleful Polymorph so it is *only* an offensive weapon. You gain no meaningful advantage from being BPed, and whatever trivial cosmetic advantage might be possible is well outweighed by the rather huge penalties to everything imposed.


I just want to build a golem.

Any ideas how that could work?
I am really frustrated about this..


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The Artificer wrote:

I just want to build a golem.

Any ideas how that could work?
I am really frustrated about this..

This is not really the thread for that, but I'll leave you with a short excerpt from Alien Archive II:

These automatons, created by powerful spellcasters, differ from most robots in that each has an elemental spirit bound within. Properly binding this spirit, which is usually from an earth elemental, is the most important part of creating a golem. As the spirit is only semiconscious, the golem exists in a mindless state and acts only to defend itself or to follow orders from its creator. In some golems, injury causes the elemental spirit to stir in its artificial shell. As it gains awareness, it rages at its imprisonment.

There are rules for cybernetic golems and nanotech golems in the book. ;)


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Praise Triune! That's fantastic! Words fail me for how thankful I am that you took the time to show me this.

Now to build the future today!

Golem army inboud! ( uncontrollable maniacal laughter)


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Now that more people have access to the book, does anyone else have any further ideas of how to build forms properly?

If my group doesn't get clarification, we may never be able to use it.


Ravingdork wrote:

Now that more people have access to the book, does anyone else have any further ideas of how to build forms properly?

If my group doesn't get clarification, we may never be able to use it.

Not that many more people have access (just late subscriber shipments), it doesn't go on sale until next Wednesday. Try again next weekend.


Glancing over the copy I got today, I'd say polymorphing is situational. It's more utility and less combat. I'd think the key is to assume a form still capable of using your weapons (you may need to drop them and pick them back up while casting), but picking up useful abilities to help that out rather than natural attacks.

Not that natural attacks are always useless, stripped of your equipment, and not being strength based, assuming a natural attack form may be useful.

So, one 'combat form' three 'utility forms'.


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Is a natural attack based polymorpher a viable build? It looks like the attack bonus leans toward the low side for quite a few levels, before finding a nice spot between the average bonus of a partial BAB and full BAB combatant around level 10. With natural attacks being a fair bit below what comparable analog weapons can do damage wise, is there any situation where a martially inclined caster isn't better off just picking up a sword?

I understand that there's the issue of opportunity costs. Spending credits on a high tier weapon isn't as easy as just picking up a spell, but perhaps we could've gotten some "amulet of mighty fists" equivalent for those of us who would like to have genetically engineered tooth and claw keep pace with space-age alloys?


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So what are the useful racial abilities to grab in a humanoid form and enhance your or an ally's existing abilities? Here are some of my thoughts, clustered by race in case you want more than one and are thinking of picking up a bonus by focusing within a race to use a lower level Polymorph. At Polymorph 2 you can pick up one of these, two if you pick both from the same race, which is pretty efficient for some uses.

Android:
1. Constructed (no breath, +2 to some saves)
2. Exceptional Vision (both darkvision and low light, more efficient than some of the direct sense options)

Kasatha:
1. Four armed (but Skittermander is better)
2. Desert stride (ignore some difficult terrain)
3. Natural grace (+2 athletics/acrobatics bonus)

Lashunta:
1. Student (+2 racial bonus to two skills, can support a hacker/engineer doing infiltration)
2. Limited telepathy (pick it up as a bonus)
3. Lashunta magic (a bonus ability for sure)

Shirren:
1. Communalism (one reroll of an attack/skill check, compares favorably to Probability Prediction)
2. Blindsense (bonus)
3. Limited telepathy (bonus)

Draelik:
1. Lurker (+4 to stealth in dim light or less, not typed)
2. Darkvision (free)

Ferran:
1. Momentum (+CL damage on a melee attack after moving 10')

Gray:
1. Phase (20% miss as a reaction)
2. Darkvision (free)

Half-Orc:
1. Orc Ferocity (buy yourself an insurance policy before combat)
2. Darkvision (free)

Kalo:
1. Kalo Movement (50' swim, faster than you can otherwise get at low level)
2. Kalo Vision (60' blindsense, plus low light)
3. Cold resistance 5 (take it for free)

Nuar:
1. Gore (for a charge build)
2. Darkvision (free)

Shobhad:
1. Four-armed
2. Shobhad Ferocity (insurance policy)

Skittermander:
1. Six armed
2. Hyper (one extra move action)
3. Grappler (+2 racial bonus to grapples)

Wrikreechee:
1. Snag (+4 untyped grapple bonus when attacking smaller, can full attack grapple; combine with Skittermander Grappler and a large size for the ultimate grapple build)

Stelliferas:
1. Hydrobody (your GM won't allow it, but I think it technically allows a small PC to boost his strength by 4)

Vilderaros:
1. Unflankable

Bolida:
1. Chitinous Plates (+1 to AC, free)
2. Fire Affinitiy (stackable resist 5, free)
3. Defensive Ball (for the next ability)
4. Rolling Charge (for bull rush specialists)

Damai:
1. Scrappy (reroll failed attack/save if ally within 10', compare to Probability Prediction)

Quorlu:
1. Tunneler (dig through 1' of stone per minute)
2. Unflankable


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How are you getting darkvision and chitinous plates for free?

I'd take a golem's magic immunity once I got access to construct forms. :P

Brew Bird wrote:
Is a natural attack based polymorpher a viable build?

Not that I've seen, but I did make a mystic with 10 Dex and 10 Str who LOVES his polymorph forms as it makes his attack rolls go from complete crap to being almost passable.


I’m saying you should (only) take those as free options because you’re sticking to one form. Polymorph 2 only gives one racial ability, so take one you want plus a free one from the same race. Once you can take two racial abilities you have to choose between two different races or three abilities (one free) from the same race.


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Ah. I think I get it now.

Wouldn't it be interesting to pick a specific polymorph form (so that you look the same every time you polymorph into it), and then polymorph the whole party into that form before committing a robbery or something?

We're the Bolida Bank Robber Sextet! :D


Ravingdork wrote:


I'd take a golem's magic immunity once I got access to construct forms. :P

I see two potential problems. First:

Other Abilities wrote:
If an ability is supernatural or could harm the target in its use, the GM should be very cautious before allowing access to it in a polymorph form.

Magic immunity is supernatural.

The second issue is that it arguably makes you immune to the spell that's turning you into a golem. So as soon as you adopt that ability your polymorph fails.


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Xenocrat wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:


I'd take a golem's magic immunity once I got access to construct forms. :P

I see two potential problems. First:

Other Abilities wrote:
If an ability is supernatural or could harm the target in its use, the GM should be very cautious before allowing access to it in a polymorph form.

Magic immunity is supernatural.

The second issue is that it arguably makes you immune to the spell that's turning you into a golem. So as soon as you adopt that ability your polymorph fails.

Darn! ;P

Brew Bird wrote:
Is a natural attack based polymorpher a viable build?

You could probably cast polymorph IV on the party's melee soldier or solarian to give them a "charging form" with the following traits:

40 ft. movement speed (free movement trait) Your base movement speed is 40 feet (which, since it replaces your normal base speed, likely stacks with any other speed boosting abilities you might possess).

Ferocious Charge (uplifted bear) When you charge, you can attempt a trip combat maneuver in place of a normal melee attack. In addition, you can charge without taking the normal charge penalties to your attack roll or AC. If you have another ability that allows you to charge without taking these penalties (such as the charge attack ability from the soldier’s blitz fighting style), you also gain the ability to charge through difficult terrain.

Momentum (ferren) You deal an additional amount of damage equal to your character level with your first melee attack after you move at least 10 feet in the same round.

Pounce (dromaeosaurid) When you charge, you can also make a full attack.

Wouldn't be great if you're relying on the form's natural attacks, but if the target already had natural attacks (such as by being a vesk), it makes for a pretty good buff spell!


I discuss here why I don't think this is a legal form - you can't mix pounce (a specific creature ability) with abilities that creature doesn't have, like these racial abilities.


Is the Nanotech Golem a legal specific creature form for Polymorph 6?

Forms wrote:
You cannot, however, transform a target to have multiple forms at one time (so you couldn’t, for example, transform a single creature into a creature with the swarm subtype).

Is a cloud of nanites that make up one creatue with a unified, well, not mind, but control mechanism, the same as a swarm of individual creatures? I hope not.

If it's legal you can grab four abilities, although there aren't many options to choose from given your limitations.

0. Fly 40' (perfect) - free
1. Nanite cloud - AOE damage and nauseaute around you and in your space
2. Swarmlike - half damage from most attacks, immunity to lots of effects
3. Magic Immunity - I was wrong in a previous post, this is Ex, not Su, so it's arguably legal. I also don't think you become immune to your own Polymorph - an existing spell doesn't have to roll against SR acquired after it effects you, after all.
4. All-Around Vision or Darkvision

Very good defensive form, especially since you get construct subtype resistances. A decent AOE offensive form if you go with Huge size and use improved invisibility to avoid the AOOs you incur by walking through enemies spaces.

So your GM probably won't let you do it.


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I feel like nannite anything would probably be off limits for the same reason swarms are.

That being said, I don't see why you couldn't poach a specific ability from it.


Ravingdork wrote:

I feel like nannite anything would probably be off limits for the same reason swarms are.

That being said, I don't see why you couldn't poach a specific ability from it.

Because you can only poach a specific ability if you're "designing a polymorph form based on a specific creature" and "if you base your form on a specific creature...you can select only abilities that the base form has" which means you're not poaching, you're just imitating that one creature and not any others.


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Xenocrat wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:

I feel like nannite anything would probably be off limits for the same reason swarms are.

That being said, I don't see why you couldn't poach a specific ability from it.

Because you can only poach a specific ability if you're "designing a polymorph form based on a specific creature" and "if you base your form on a specific creature...you can select only abilities that the base form has" which means you're not poaching, you're just imitating that one creature and not any others.

I was thinking more like, because nannites are separate entities making up a whole, like a swarm.

None of that other stuff, no.


The feat probably deserves some commentary.

Polymorph Adept feat wrote:


You are adept at changing forms using polymorph.
Prerequisites: You know the polymorph spell as a 3rd level spell or higher.
Benefit: While your polymorph spell targeting yourself lasts, as a standard action, you can change into another form you know from that level of the spell or any lower-level version. This does not affect the duration of the spell.

This seems really good once you know lots of forms. You can switch between special movement modes, specialized combat builds (grappler, charger, trampler), pick special resistances/immunities at high level (swap to a poison, radiation, or disease immune form to cure an ongoing effect), swap to specific low level forms with fixed racial skill boosters when you need to perform specific tech/infiltration/social skills, temporarily compress when you need to bypass a narrow obstacle, switch to niche senses if they come up, change size as the battle/exploration move between inside and outdoor environments, switch to and then away from those racial reroll traits to make sure you get a use out of them for ever casting, and have a variety of breath weapon elements available in case you need one to overcome some regeneration or exploit an elemental vulnerability. Particularly good for Technomancers who have Extended Spell magic hack.

This versatility probably works best if you pick a lot of nonspecific utility forms to support the shooting and spell casting you're doing anyway, it just becomes a long lasting adjustable and customized buff spell.


Quigrat is adorable


It's probably worth analyzing how much each level up of the Polymorph spell adds, to see which are the most effective if you're grabbing generic utility abilities and so don't care about DCs (however those work) or CR. If you take the Polymorph Adept feat it's important to be efficient with your abilities that you'll be swapping between; don't waste a high level slot on abilities you can grab with (and switch to with a standard action) a lower spell level.

For example, compare Polymorph 5 and Polymorph 6. They have a lot in common, including the same number of special abilities (three).

What polymorph 6 adds:
Subtypes: No change
CR: goes up from 12 to 15
Size: Diminutive and Huge options
Defensive abilities: same DR and energy resistances, adds option for immunity to poison, disease, or radiation
Racial traits: goes from three to four (which you can only achieve if you adopt a specific PC race and take all four racial traits)
Senses: No change
Speed: all options go from 40 to 60, fly goes from average to perfect manueverability

So if you're after utility Polymorph 6 doesn't give you that much extra, and you need to make sure your P6 forms are exploiting those differences. Pick a dimunitive or huge form, pick poison, disease, or radiation immunity, make those movement options matter. Don't bother loading up on (or probably even selecting) racial traits with a P6 form, and don't pick DR or energy resistance. Those needs can be filled by P5.


What is the point of using a specific critter as opposed to your own Build a (uplifted) bear where you just pick 4 random abilities?

Mostly not looking to cheese. More to avoid the cross checking between the spell and the abilities i want.


A specific critter gets you (1) an extra special ability and (2) access to “other abilities” of that monster (the cool specialized abilities in the monster stats rather than the spell provided options), but you pay for it by not being able to take any abilities that specific critter doesn’t have.


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If I've understood his recent comments correctly, Xenocrat doesn't believe you can get "other abilities" when making a unique form.

Darn. Ninja'd.


So.. none. Unless you want a disguise


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I for one suspect you CAN poach abilities from creatures for your unique form. The text stating "If you’re designing a polymorph form based on a specific creature, the GM may allow you to select one of that creature’s special abilities..." may well mean "based on in part" rather than whole.

Also, other areas of polymorph that say "select one" don't actually mean that you are limited to just one. It really means "one per ability slot expended."

BigNorseWolf wrote:
So.. none. Unless you want a disguise

If the blue dragon and dragonkin examples in Alien Archive 2 are any indication, I suspect you might be able to get the disguise bonus even when using unique forms.

I may have the construct type (and all that, that entails), a breath weapon, a burrow speed, and fire resistance, but I get a +10 disguise bonus to look like a dog.


Ravingdork wrote:

If the blue dragon and dragonkin examples in Alien Archive 2 are any indication, I suspect you might be able to get the disguise bonus even when using unique forms.

I may have the construct type (and all that, that entails), a breath weapon, a burrow speed, and fire resistance, but I get a +10 disguise bonus to look like a dog.

I think this is probably right, but how/why subtypes interact with stuff is just totally unexplained. Which admittedly does mean it can't really be used to prevent anything.

One thing I would note is that just because the examples are called blue dragon and dragonkin doesn't necessarily mean they are "specific creature" forms. Those forms have legal abilities without having to get the bonus special ability from focusing on a specific creature. Only the breath weapons and defensive abilities cost anything, and they equal the normal number of special abilities. So the name might just indicate those forms provide abilities associated with those aliens, but you don't have to look like those forms to have those abilities.


Let's look at the subtype language.

Type and Subtype wrote:

Polymorph spells allow their target to appear to be a creature of a different type and subtype and grant the target some benefits related to the base creature’s capabilities. Despite these changes, the target’s type and subtype remain the same.

More powerful spells grant the target extra benefits based on the chosen type or subtype, as noted in the spell description. Those benefits follow. Taking the appearance of a type or subtype not listed below doesn’t grant the target any related abilities.

I do think this means that if you want to appear as a particular creature, you need to select that subtype (and be able to, based on the spell level's limitations). This is based on the second paragraph, which notes that at high levels choosing a subtype can give "extra benefits" for certain powerful subtypes. If those are "extra" benefits, there must be some baseline benefits from choosing a less powerful subtype - the appearance. This is reinforced by the last sentence - taking the appearance of a subtype not not listed below (e.g. monstrous humanoid) doesn't give any extra abilities, just the capability to appear as a monstrous humanoid form.

This does mean that you can't actually disguise yourself as a dragon using a polymorph form. You might pick a made up amalgam of abilities that line up with those of a dragon form (the example Dragonkin and Blue Dragon work this way), but since you can't adopt the dragon subtype you can't have the disguise bonus for really looking like one.


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Xenocrat wrote:

Let's look at the subtype language.

Type and Subtype wrote:

Polymorph spells allow their target to appear to be a creature of a different type and subtype and grant the target some benefits related to the base creature’s capabilities. Despite these changes, the target’s type and subtype remain the same.

More powerful spells grant the target extra benefits based on the chosen type or subtype, as noted in the spell description. Those benefits follow. Taking the appearance of a type or subtype not listed below doesn’t grant the target any related abilities.

I do think this means that if you want to appear as a particular creature, you need to select that subtype (and be able to, based on the spell level's limitations). This is based on the second paragraph, which notes that at high levels choosing a subtype can give "extra benefits" for certain powerful subtypes. If those are "extra" benefits, there must be some baseline benefits from choosing a less powerful subtype - the appearance. This is reinforced by the last sentence - taking the appearance of a subtype not not listed below (e.g. monstrous humanoid) doesn't give any extra abilities, just the capability to appear as a monstrous humanoid form.

This does mean that you can't actually disguise yourself as a dragon using a polymorph form. You might pick a made up amalgam of abilities that line up with those of a dragon form (the example Dragonkin and Blue Dragon work this way), but since you can't adopt the dragon subtype you can't have the disguise bonus for really looking like one.

I'm inclined to agree, Xenocrat. Still seems pretty ambiguous though.


1. Goofy Polymorph 6 build idea: diminutive, compression (can squeeze through spaces at least 1.5" wide), 60' burrow (free), the Quorlu Tunnler racial ability (dig through 1' of stone per minute), and blindsight (vibration) 15' for a infiltration build.

2. Ultimate grappler Polymorph 6 build idea: huge, elemental subtype (for unflankable, why not), 60' land speed (free), racial ability (Skittermander Six Armed), racial ability (Skittermander Grappler), racial ability (Wrikreechee Snag).

Gives you a +6 to grapples from the polymorph form (if Large or smaller; +2 if they're Huge or larger), plus +4 feat and a +2 grapple weapon gets you a +12 for grapple attacks against KAC+8, or KAC+13 to pin. Nice! But you can also full attack (usual -4 penalty) grapple against targets of all sizes. (Good for use with that grapple weapon in Armory that has a burn crit effect, two chances per turn to apply it.) So against a Huge or larger creature you can still try a full attack grapple at adjusted +4/+4 against KAC+8. Same odds as a normal ranged full attack against KAC.

Use your extra arms to carry a good two handed ranged weapon (grappled creatures can't AoO you) and a good two handed melee weapon if you want to switch to damage dealing while your target is still grappled next round.

3. Adequate grappler Polymorph 6 build idea: as above, but only Large size (so you can still super grapple medium foes), and drop the six arms.


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Xenocrat wrote:

1. Goofy Polymorph 6 build idea: diminutive, compression (can squeeze through spaces at least 1.5" wide), 60' burrow (free), the Quorlu Tunnler racial ability (dig through 1' of stone per minute), and blindsight (vibration) 15' for a infiltration build.

2. Ultimate grappler Polymorph 6 build idea: huge, elemental subtype (for unflankable, why not), 60' land speed (free), racial ability (Skittermander Six Armed), racial ability (Skittermander Grappler), racial ability (Wrikreechee Snag).

Gives you a +6 to grapples from the polymorph form (if Large or smaller; +2 if they're Huge or larger), plus +4 feat and a +2 grapple weapon gets you a +12 for grapple attacks against KAC+8, or KAC+13 to pin. Nice! But you can also full attack (usual -4 penalty) grapple against targets of all sizes. (Good for use with that grapple weapon in Armory that has a burn crit effect, two chances per turn to apply it.) So against a Huge or larger creature you can still try a full attack grapple at adjusted +4/+4 against KAC+8. Same odds as a normal ranged full attack against KAC.

Use your extra arms to carry a good two handed ranged weapon (grappled creatures can't AoO you) and a good two handed melee weapon if you want to switch to damage dealing while your target is still grappled next round.

3. Adequate grappler Polymorph 6 build idea: as above, but only Large size (so you can still super grapple medium foes), and drop the six arms.

Very cool!

Has something changed? I thought that you thought that such forms would be illegal.


Hmm? Which part do you think I thought would be illegal based on my past comments?

These are all generic abilities granted by the spell (PC racial abilities are "generic" and not creature-specific, oddly enough). I only think it's when you go pull a (non-PC racial) ability directly out of a monster write up that you invoke "other abilities" and can no longer take abilities not tied to that specific creature.

So mix all the various PC racial abilities you want, so long as you don't grab an "other ability" that comes from a specific creature and doesn't fit one of the explicitly allowed categories granted by the spell.

(#3 above should have referenced Polymorph 4, not P6. That's why it's Adequate rather than Ultimate.)


4. Adequate Stealth Build using Polymorph 3: small (+1 to all dex skills), Draelik racial trait Lurker (+4 stealth in dim light or darkness), Lashunta racial trait Student (+2 racial to Stealth plus one other skill of your choice). Gives you a total of +7 to Stealth if you aren't in normal/bright light.

5. Ultimate Stealth Build using Polymorph 6: dimunitive (+3 to all dex skills), Draelik racial trait Lurker (+4 stealth in dim light or darkness), Lashunta racial trait Student (+2 racial to Stealth plus one other skill of your choice), some free movement mode (perfect flight 60'?), and whatever 3rd ability who want, probably a sense that works in the dark. Gives you +9 to stealth, and maybe there's some synergestic third ability I haven't thought of.

6. Ultimate Lucky Reroll Build using Polymorph 3: This one is amazing, folks. Shirren racial trait Communalism (one per day choose to roll an attack or skill check twice if an ally is within 10'), Damai racial trait Scrappy (once per day reroll a failed attack or save if an ally is within 10'). Also pick a free movement mode and either small or medium for a +1 to dex or str checks/skills.

Why is this amazing? Because it's straight up better than Probability Prediction, which is a pretty good spell at the same level. Probability Prediction has the same duration, but only allows one reroll (albeit of any skill, attack, or save, rather than your two bifurcated and slightly limited options), doesn't have the "I already know I failed" option of Scrappy, and doesn't come with the free movement mode and skill boost. The only limitation of this one is that you have to be close to an ally to make it work.

That's why you have a Squox buddy in your armor compartment. And you take the Polymorph Adept feat so that you can swap out of this form to a different one once you've used up both rerolls. And did you know you can pick this form four times, just with different movement modes or sizes to differentiate them, if you want to have up to 8 rerolls out of one 3rd level spell casting...? Ok, your GM might not allow you to get extra rerolls that way, but even without it it's great, and you can still make use of the remaining duration by picking a different useful form after they're used up.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

You're huge skittermander (that clearly isn't a skittermander) threw me off, but I guess it doesn't contradict your previous statements after all.

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