"Mount" - Why so limited?


Playing the Game


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I get that Paizo is trying to make Horses as unique as other animal companions, but why are they the only mount? A quick look at pretty much any other fantasy game or movie shows characters riding a huge variety of animals. D&D ffs has Halflings riding dogs and raptors. So why is Pathfinder 2, a system which is supposed to give far more options than others, so limited?

Suggestion: Either get rid of the "Mount" keyword, or don't limit abilities such as Cavalier Dedication to only companions with "Mount." Then a Halfing Cavalier can ride a dog (or wolf, I guess... -_-) like an Outrider or a raptor like a Talenta Nomad as they're supposed to be able to.


There already is Feats expanding Mount status, see Goblin Rough Rider (Wolf).
Riding Dog and Goblin Dogs seem like normal Mounts... Probably Mules too ("Pack Animal") as iconic Dwarven Mount.
IMHO Camels should be standard Mounts, or at least via Regional benefit?


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Yeah, that's the problem I explained. They're considered normal mounts, but they don't have the "Mount" special rule, so they can't be taken as mounts (rules as written) by a Cavalier.
Thus, either "Mount" should be added to Wolf (which, for balance reasons, would result in all Animal Companions also gaining the "Mount" keyword), or the "Mount" keyword needs to be removed from the game completely.
Also, because of this needed change, the "Work Together" ability needs to be re-worked as well. Personally I also don't think this ability should be needlessly limited. It should work regardless of who is riding it and with no "Mount" keyword tax.
And while we're on the subject, I'd personally reduce the speed of the raptor. 50ft is crazy fast. 40ft at most, but I'd keep horses as the fastest mounts. 35ft seems reasonable, or 40ft with horses at 45.

Special note to Paizo devs: You REALLY need to stop limiting your game. You should be empowering players to make bad-ass character concepts, not stifling their creativity and shoe-horning them into boring stereotypes.

Grand Lodge

ClanPsi wrote:

Yeah, that's the problem I explained. They're considered normal mounts, but they don't have the "Mount" special rule, so they can't be taken as mounts (rules as written) by a Cavalier.

Thus, either "Mount" should be added to Wolf (which, for balance reasons, would result in all Animal Companions also gaining the "Mount" keyword), or the "Mount" keyword needs to be removed from the game completely.
<snip>

They just updated Goblins in 1.3:

Page 31—We’re making it easier for goblins to befriend
wolves. In the Rough Rider feat, before the last sentence,
add “When you must choose an animal companion with
the mount trait, you can also choose a wolf, even though it
doesn’t have the mount trait.”


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What is actually missing are rules for training animals and teaching them various tricks and tasks. "Mount" should be an option you are able to train almost any animal to obtain. Then various animals can just come with various tricks or tasks as "bonus" abilities, with Mount being the horse's bonus task.


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I noticed this when trying to think up a build for a high level druid. Unless you play a small race or pick a horse, you can't ride your animal companion as a mount until 12th level at earliest (10th for Cavaliers), and there seems to be no way to give an Animal Companion the "Mount" special ability to actually do anything other than land movement while being ridden.

I'd say that there needs to be a way to give animal companions the mount special ability. At very least, there should be a specialization based around mounted ACs similar to the ambusher or racer specializations (though that'd come on too late to be a full solution).


Mount: Any creature that you can convince to carry you. Bulk limits apply.

My gnome rides a fleet half-orc hireling.


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Penn: Yeah, but that only solves the problem specifically for Goblins taking that specific racial feat. Everyone else is screwed.

Puzzypaws: Adding tricks won't solve the problem I mentioned (though tricks in general would be a neat addition!), since Cavaliers have to choose a companion with the "Mount" keyword already attached to the animal. I still stand by my opinion that "Mount" just needs to be deleted completely.


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I'd love for something fancy to ride for my paladin mount.

Guess I'll have to settle for a horse rather than anything seriously cool.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
ClanPsi wrote:

Penn: Yeah, but that only solves the problem specifically for Goblins taking that specific racial feat. Everyone else is screwed.

Actually, It doesn't really solve the problem. Goblins could already select a wolf; both cavalier dedication and Steed Ally (paladin) have the caveat that for cultural reasons a GM can allow a different kind of animal, and goblin lore points to them hating horses. It's not really a problem if your GM is reasonable.

The problem is that the wolf still does not gain the mount trait, so it cannot use any non land speed while you mount it. Why do you care? Because paladin mounts gain the ability to fly


Penn wrote:
ClanPsi wrote:

Yeah, that's the problem I explained. They're considered normal mounts, but they don't have the "Mount" special rule, so they can't be taken as mounts (rules as written) by a Cavalier.

Thus, either "Mount" should be added to Wolf (which, for balance reasons, would result in all Animal Companions also gaining the "Mount" keyword), or the "Mount" keyword needs to be removed from the game completely.
<snip>

They just updated Goblins in 1.3:

Page 31—We’re making it easier for goblins to befriend
wolves. In the Rough Rider feat, before the last sentence,
add “When you must choose an animal companion with
the mount trait, you can also choose a wolf, even though it
doesn’t have the mount trait.”

Which is an attempt at solving the problem, but they screw it up by not actually giving the wolf the 'Mount' trait when ridden by a Goblin Rider.

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