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I may be crazy but I distinctly remember an interview with Jason Bulmahn in the last few years where he made the observation that Wild Empathy never works the way it's supposed to because of the dumb rule, going all the way back to 3.0, that you have to have a whole minute to change an animal's attitude.
So now, for some reason, in PF2 Playtest Wild Empathy still takes one whole minute to attempt to change an animal's reaction. This is presumably because this is how diplomacy works.
Here's the fantasy of most people who want to play druids: The party meets a dangerous animal in the wilderness. The animal snarls and threatens, defending its young or its territory. The party druid cautiously approaches, offering food and soothing words, and slowly, slowly, the animal calms down and allows the party to pass on to their destination.
Everyone wants this to happen. It never ever happens because every encounter like this goes immediately into initiative and even if somehow the druid wins initiative, using Wild Empathy takes 10 whole rounds.
I propose Wild Empathy become its own thing, divorced from Diplomacy, so it can have the effect that druid players really want. The check is made IMMEDIATELY, as soon as the druid initiates it, and the druid must commit to at least a minute more, if it is successful, to truly soothe the animal. Make it a hard check, and if it fails, the animal's attitude drops one level, usually meaning it attacks at once. So all or nothing.
That would be a dramatic, fun thing that could happen at the table as part of Exploration mode instead of the immediate jump into initiative and combat that is basically every dangerous animal encounter ever.
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Noted, we can perhaps mention how it's supposed to work vis-a-vis wild animals that you encounter in the open before a fight begins (as opposed to being ambushed or other such situations where the fight comes before anything else).
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+1000
This is my pet peeve with D&D Druids, they seem better at summoned Pokemon animals than dealing with real life natural animals, when the reverse should be true. (if anything, being able to 'call' real animals from surrounding area woud be better than Summon cheese) But regardless of Summons, they should be able to handle direct animal encounters like this better than anybody.
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Noted, we can perhaps mention how it's supposed to work vis-a-vis wild animals that you encounter in the open before a fight begins (as opposed to being ambushed or other such situations where the fight comes before anything else).
Unfortunately, in just about every published Paizo product that I'm aware of encounters with animals virtually NEVER start with an encounter in the open. Its pretty much ALWAYS "You see an animal (or are ambushed by the animal). Roll initiative"
At the very least, toss in a skill feat to allow druids to use Wild Empathy in combat or in a single round or something
I'd like to see this clarified as well.
Unfortunately, in just about every published Paizo product that I'm aware of encounters with animals virtually NEVER start with an encounter in the open. Its pretty much ALWAYS "You see an animal (or are ambushed by the animal). Roll initiative"
At the very least, toss in a skill feat to allow druids to use Wild Empathy in combat or in a single round or something
+1.
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Noted, we can perhaps mention how it's supposed to work vis-a-vis wild animals that you encounter in the open before a fight begins (as opposed to being ambushed or other such situations where the fight comes before anything else).Unfortunately, in just about every published Paizo product that I'm aware of encounters with animals virtually NEVER start with an encounter in the open. Its pretty much ALWAYS "You see an animal (or are ambushed by the animal). Roll initiative"
This here precisely. If you want it to be used in Exploration Mode, then SAY SO, let the Druid actively search for, find, and befriend animals with a SINGLE check through Wild Empathy. Otherwise it will never see use at the table, 99.9999% of all Tables where the GM announces a wild Animal that crosses their path one of two things will happen: 1) Initiative & Combat 2) The Animal runs away before anyone can get close to it because their Starting Attitude is at BEST indifferent (E.G. Scared of the PCs)
Make it instantaneous X times a day in Combat, or Automatic during Exploration Phase, either that or just scrap it altogether for something more interesting.
So now, for some reason, in PF2 Playtest Wild Empathy still takes one whole minute to attempt to change an animal's reaction. This is presumably because this is how diplomacy works.
Yep Wild Empathy uses Diplomacy and it basically doesn't work. I haven't even bothered training Diplomacy with my Druid as I have more intersting things to do.
I assume that the Druid has to go in front of the party and try this Diplomacy check to get it to work. I assume the GM has to allow the time for this to happen.
Then I have the problem with the fact that animals are animals are probably are only capable of the simplest diplomacy. IE please leave us alone, Or go over here there is good food.
To me that should not require the Diplomacy skill, that should be all Nature. Requiring Druids to take Diplomacy and Charisma to get it to work is nuts.
The whole scenario is uncommon at best anyway.
I understand how they got to using Diplomacy, because in 1e it worked like Diplo yet used independent formula meaning you could never boost it like Diplo and/or created alot of confusion about what could affect it. In this case I think 'you can use Nature or Diplo' is best approach (if a Druid has high CHA and some other bonus to Diplo, it seems weird to prevent them using it here, but if they don't just using Nature seems fine). But aside from skill details, fixing usability re: actual animal encounters is top priority.