"Your Tuba falls over on the Ogre and Kills him."


Skills, Feats, Equipment & Spells


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I've not had many complaints about PF2, so... bear with me... here's my biggest complaint so far. Not even Resonance can possibly affect a character so profoundly.

So, of complaint frequently is the idea that Alchemist Kits are 2 Bulk. This is quite a hefty kit by comparison: Climbing Kits? Repair Kits? Healer Kits? 1 Bulk. Smaller kits like Thieves' Tools? even lighter.

Even a FREAKIN' TEN-FOOT POLE is 1 Bulk! An alchemist Tool Kit is harder to tote around than a Ten Foot Long Wooden Pole.

However, other Devices and kits are even more ridiculously overweight in terms of bulk. A Snare Kit? What if you want a Ranger to have Snares be their "go to" ability? A Snare Kit is 8 BULK. That would encumber all but the 16 STR warrior, and that's with nothing else carried except his skivvies and a hopeful gleam in his eye. He would have to put this on a mount -- no, scratch that. A Snare Kit is as bulky as a six-foot tall person. A mount could, unencumbered, carry the snare kit, or a rider with his gear. Not both.

So let's look at Bulky Musical Instruments. 16 Bulk. OK, a Piano I could see - maybe a portable Harpsichord. But what examples do we see? a set of drums, or a Tuba. That one doesn't bother me as much, but it still stands out as a level of Bulk that will not even grace a mount -- perhaps a wagon.

So, in addition to fixing the poor required Alchemy Kit, perhaps we could do something to make that poor snare kit viable, especially if we WANT the Ranger and other wilderness-types to find it appealing to use.


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man... those people in marching bands carrying and playing tubas must be beasts with them carrying, and marching, with a 16 bulk thing on their hands.

^^

Yeah, in general, bulk seems like someone rolled a die instead of being actually thought of correct weights/bulk for stuff.


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I'm pretty sure a snare kit includes an 8 foot log.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/4vt0IBejFbc/hqdefault.jpg


Mandatory rules for a metagaming bard:

  • A falling tuba provokes a DC15 reflex save for quarter/no/half/full damage (S/CS/F/CF).
  • Ogres have 60 HP.
  • Ogres have a +3 reflex save.
  • Full damage value for a falling tuba is half the distance it was dropped. Beware, this caps out at 750.


  • Err... Actually the tuba is "between 1 and 16 bulk": it's not cited as an heavy instrument, but it's stated the GM may decide it's heavier than a handheld instrument.

    I guess this is the kind of chimes they were thinking about. As for drum... Maybe they were thinking about some giant drum? Or a whole set? I don't know.


    shroudb wrote:

    man... those people in marching bands carrying and playing tubas must be beasts with them carrying, and marching, with a 16 bulk thing on their hands.

    Consider the idea stolen.


    So is a pipe organ only 16 bulk? Seems low to me.


    I took a drum kit home on the London Underground. It took me 2 journeys and I wasn't going to be able to carry much else. So as an average skinny youth (Str 10?) that's about 8 bulk per trip, total 16.


    Draco18s wrote:

    I'm pretty sure a snare kit includes an 8 foot log.

    https://i.ytimg.com/vi/4vt0IBejFbc/hqdefault.jpg

    Nothing like that in the list of snares in the playtest rulebook. Well, maybe the hobbling snare if the log is intended to hit you in the knees, but probably not.


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    It's all well and good for realism, but if the designers want characters to actually try to use it, I'd think it needs to come down in weight a bit. As it is, I find it very unlikely many players are going to invest resources in snare-making if it requires a "kit" the size of a person to use it consistently - not to mention that, unlike Alchemical Items, you can't "craft a snare" and take it with you to use later like you could an alchemical bomb or a mutagen. You craft in-place and it doesn't move -- and I need a freakin' pack animal to go adventuring and find an opportunity to use it.

    I'm being a little more facetious on the drums or Tuba -- doubt we'll see many Tuba-playing Bards, anyway.

    So, naturally, my next playtest character is going to be a multi-classed tuba-playing Bard/Fighter with an 18 STR and wears heavy armor and packs a Bastard Sword for backup... Just to see how far I get. :)


    ENHenry wrote:
    doubt we'll see many Tuba-playing Bards, anyway.

    I dunno, it feels like in this edition it's wholly possible to play a bard who never puts down their instrument to pick up a weapon, so I can see people who want to do this choosing to play whichever instrument conjures the most amusing mental image- sousaphone, marching glockenspeil, tenor drum kit, etc.


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    PossibleCabbage wrote:
    ENHenry wrote:
    doubt we'll see many Tuba-playing Bards, anyway.
    I dunno, it feels like in this edition it's wholly possible to play a bard who never puts down their instrument to pick up a weapon, so I can see people who want to do this choosing to play whichever instrument conjures the most amusing mental image- sousaphone, marching glockenspeil, tenor drum kit, etc.

    Can you use a didgeridoo as a staff?

    I'm asking for a friend <.<


    All that makes me think about is Illusion of Gaia

    Scarab Sages

    Leedwashere wrote:
    PossibleCabbage wrote:
    ENHenry wrote:
    doubt we'll see many Tuba-playing Bards, anyway.
    I dunno, it feels like in this edition it's wholly possible to play a bard who never puts down their instrument to pick up a weapon, so I can see people who want to do this choosing to play whichever instrument conjures the most amusing mental image- sousaphone, marching glockenspeil, tenor drum kit, etc.

    Can you use a didgeridoo as a staff?

    I'm asking for a friend <.<

    I now picture a Gnome Bard using a freaking triangle like a madman while laughing hysterically to make people confuse and angry.


    Shaheer-El-Khatib wrote:
    Leedwashere wrote:
    PossibleCabbage wrote:
    ENHenry wrote:
    doubt we'll see many Tuba-playing Bards, anyway.
    I dunno, it feels like in this edition it's wholly possible to play a bard who never puts down their instrument to pick up a weapon, so I can see people who want to do this choosing to play whichever instrument conjures the most amusing mental image- sousaphone, marching glockenspeil, tenor drum kit, etc.

    Can you use a didgeridoo as a staff?

    I'm asking for a friend <.<

    I now picture a Gnome Bard using a freaking triangle like a madman while laughing hysterically to make people confuse and angry.

    Needs more cowbell!


    Tuba-playing bard... a Tubard?


    Leedwashere wrote:
    PossibleCabbage wrote:
    ENHenry wrote:
    doubt we'll see many Tuba-playing Bards, anyway.
    I dunno, it feels like in this edition it's wholly possible to play a bard who never puts down their instrument to pick up a weapon, so I can see people who want to do this choosing to play whichever instrument conjures the most amusing mental image- sousaphone, marching glockenspeil, tenor drum kit, etc.

    Can you use a didgeridoo as a staff?

    I'm asking for a friend <.<

    It's hollow so wouldn't be weighted properly. But I'd allow it as an improvised staff (-2 to hit), sure.


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    Draco18s wrote:

    I'm pretty sure a snare kit includes an 8 foot log.

    https://i.ytimg.com/vi/4vt0IBejFbc/hqdefault.jpg

    At 8 bulk, I think it includes a goblin to build the snares for you... :P


    I keep thinking the snare kit's bulk is a typo. 8 is just two keys above 2 on the number pad on a keyboard, after all...


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    Fuzzypaws wrote:
    I keep thinking the snare kit's bulk is a typo. 8 is just two keys above 2 on the number pad on a keyboard, after all...

    Or it was meant to be 9 and they just haven't gotten around to upping it... :P

    Quite honestly, everything about the bulk system and the seemingly random nature of bulk assigned to items bothers me. Without knowing what's exactly in the kit or what it's size/weight/ect is, it's hard to say something is an unintended error or an intended one.


    PossibleCabbage wrote:
    So is a pipe organ only 16 bulk? Seems low to me.

    I'm not yet an expert on Bulk, but this pipe organ is probably less than 16 bulk (it's certainly less than the upper of the tuba size range).


    I wanna go full one man band with big ass drum, harmonica, the works. And the Tuba bit should totally work for Dwarfs :)
    But I said goodbye to any rhyme or reason to Bulk values long ago when we put 4 Shields in a belt pouch.


    Honestly, I haven't had a problem with the rest of the Bulk system -- it's just a few inordinately-bulky things that stick out like sore thumbs to me. My Level 1 Wizard was walking around with 2 bulk and change, my level 4 Alchemist got kitted out at about 5 bulk (he was closest) but everyone else I blew a slot on a bag of holding for, and weight problems weren't an issue - but I have no desire to wait until level 5 or later, and hope to get lucky finding or making a bag of holding to begin bothering with a snare kit, because for a level 1 through 4 character, an 8 Bulk Snare Kit is the LOWEST item on my list of needs.

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