Design Goals


General Discussion


Did anyone pick up on Mike Mearls sharing the design goals for 5e (originally on Twitter, reported on EN Worldn links below)? Was this an attempt to rub a little salt into the wounds as Paizo seem to be not providing a clear answer when people are asking this question regarding Pathfinder Playtest and the upcoming 2nd edition?

https://twitter.com/mikemearls/status/1041036499146305536
http://www.enworld.org/forum/content.php?5629-Mearls-On-D-D-s-Design-Premis es-Goals


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

No. Have you even read what you've posted? Him saying that a system won't fix s&#%ty people, so don't play with them, doesn't reflect in any way on Paizo.

On a quick side tangent: I much prefer Paizo's communication policy, where I can come to the forums to look for answers from the devs, instead of having to follow them on Twitter to get clarifications and rules explanations.


Not saying that the post reflects on Paizo or that I prefer Twitter as a way of communication. Just wondered why Mearls chose to announce this now, during the playtest.

I’ve seen a few threads asking for clarification on why a second edition was needed and some being frustrated that there hadn’t been a clear answer.

It just felt, to me, that Mearls was trying to say he had clear goals and can easily share them - although it is easy to say what your goals are after you have your game finished, making them sound like the goals were always there.

Don’t get me wrong, after reading the design goals of 5e, I like it even less. I like my games full of rules and complexity that allows for deep strategic choices. Although the Playtest has its issues, I like the direction it is heading in. But, I do think that Paizo could share their design goal of 2nd edition in a way that allows me to engage even more.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Tricky110974 wrote:

I’ve seen a few threads asking for clarification on why a second edition was needed and some being frustrated that there hadn’t been a clear answer.

It just felt, to me, that Mearls was trying to say he had clear goals and can easily share them - although it is easy to say what your goals are after you have your game finished, making them sound like the goals were always there.

So do you think that Mr.Mearls browses through the Playtest Forums and Pathfinder Subreddit, to look for Twitter inspiration and to post backhanded comments about PF2?

I think that sounds highly unlikely and the already very thin connection is probably coincidental at best.


Maybe...


That doesn't seem to have anything to do with the current "furor" of design goals. Also my understanding is that current WotC staff and Paizo folks are on pretty good relationships. Don't mistake tensions in a fanbase with tensions between creative folks.


Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Its the Stormwind fallacy again. With a side order of just insulting people for playing a different game to the author's.

If I'm playing a game, the depth or simplicity of the rules system doesn't make me roleplay any more or less.

Regardless of the system I still want to think about who my characters are as people, how they act, where they come from, what background made them that way. Those magical moments where your own character surprises you with how they'd react to something are entirely independent of system, however rules light or heavy.

If depth of rules hinder the focus on narrative and identity then why have a ruleset at all? If that were true then Mike's 5th Ed may be better than PF1, but surely by that logic its infinitely inferior to Fighting Fantasy, or better yet, freeform improv? If Mike is correct why not to do away with rulesets and hence game designers like him entirely?

Truth is, we don't suddenly become better or worse role-players or storytellers when we pick up a different rulebook. Its not a zero sum.

Paizo Employee Director of Game Design

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Folks, what Mearls decides to post in reference to D&D has nothing to do with the Playtest. I doubt he is even aware of much of what is going on in our process. I doubt even more that he would try to intentionally cause strife, seeing as most of us in this biz are old friends.

As for our goals, I'm working to find a good way to share those that does not corrupt our playtest results.

Until then... this thread is locked.

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