Twitch 9-21: Preview of Rules Update 1.3


General Discussion

51 to 100 of 328 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | next > last >>

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I don't think that this approach to the skills will fix the problems.

They lower the DC for everyone. So you will still not feel like you are a lot better than the other party members on skills. Except for the untrained people in the party that got an additional -2.

Might be better then i think with critical success on skills. But critical success do not apply to all skills/uses.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
LuniasM wrote:
Potentially removing consumables from Resonance entirely seems fairly substantial, given that would also imply a major shift in how the Alchemist class works in addition to the obvious wand and potion changes.

Sorry to say this is not an example of them still being willing to make substantial changes. They always knew there was slim to no chance of resonance making it through to the final game in its original format. They took the most extreme position possible with it. I've said from very early on it would never survive and even when they previewed it they very much made it sound like "guys, just test it and then we'll change it."

That isn't to say they're not willing to make substantial changes. Update 1.3 simply isn't an example of this. Changing resonance is an example of them changing something they always knew wouldn't fly.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Sounds like great changes! I love the way the mage is moving now.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I really like the Death and Dying bit, to deter Whack-a-Mole.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Quote:
Cures (healer’s lvl) * (your con mod) hp.

Hm, if that's based off the recipient's CON modifier, does that mean particularly elves are harmed by human medicine? XD

I assume it'll have a minimum of 1.


8 people marked this as a favorite.

Most of this was looking pretty decent until:

Joe M. wrote:
Death and dying: getting much more deadly. New condition, “wounded,” you acquire when you are healed back up from 0 hp. Next time you drop to 0, your wounded value is added on to your dying value. And since you die at dying 4 ... this can mean insta-death if you’re doing too much up-and-down.

So...the solution to the already complicated dying rules and the character deaths and TPKs is to...make them even more complicated and more deadly?


BryonD wrote:
Aristophanes wrote:
BryonD wrote:
Still +level then?
GODS, I hope so!

Glad to see the desire for inclusion of other play styles hasn't contaminated anything.

Thanks

At least it's dead simple to omit, or play around with (+1/4, +1/2, +2 x level, etc). I really like that the base chassis is so friendly to tweaking in this manner (different campaign settings might want different monster threat rangers, aesthetic, feel, etc).

A change I really want is to lessen essential additional weapon damage dice being dependant on magic items.

Silver Crusade

12 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
John Mechalas wrote:

Most of this was looking pretty decent until:

Joe M. wrote:
Death and dying: getting much more deadly. New condition, “wounded,” you acquire when you are healed back up from 0 hp. Next time you drop to 0, your wounded value is added on to your dying value. And since you die at dying 4 ... this can mean insta-death if you’re doing too much up-and-down.

So...the solution to the already complicated dying rules and the character deaths and TPKs is to...make them even more complicated and more deadly?

The Eleven TPKs of Collete Brunel don't count.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Gorbacz wrote:
John Mechalas wrote:

Most of this was looking pretty decent until:

Joe M. wrote:
Death and dying: getting much more deadly. New condition, “wounded,” you acquire when you are healed back up from 0 hp. Next time you drop to 0, your wounded value is added on to your dying value. And since you die at dying 4 ... this can mean insta-death if you’re doing too much up-and-down.

So...the solution to the already complicated dying rules and the character deaths and TPKs is to...make them even more complicated and more deadly?

The Eleven TPKs of Collete Brunel don't count.

Why exactly do they not?

---

Otherwise a good update. Hopefully they will do their spell pass soon.


6 people marked this as a favorite.
magnuskn wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
John Mechalas wrote:

Most of this was looking pretty decent until:

Joe M. wrote:
Death and dying: getting much more deadly. New condition, “wounded,” you acquire when you are healed back up from 0 hp. Next time you drop to 0, your wounded value is added on to your dying value. And since you die at dying 4 ... this can mean insta-death if you’re doing too much up-and-down.

So...the solution to the already complicated dying rules and the character deaths and TPKs is to...make them even more complicated and more deadly?

The Eleven TPKs of Collete Brunel don't count.

Why exactly do they not?

---

Otherwise a good update. Hopefully they will do their spell pass soon.

Read through that person posts for a good hour and you will understand. particularly if you choose a subject you don't agree with him on.

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Card Game, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
graystone wrote:


Rewriting the PFS module Raiders of the Shrieking Peak: Ok... I wasn't even thinking of playing PFS module as I don't play PFS. Seems odd to have PFS test a universal game feature.
.

The reason for this is that they will also.be redoing the pregens for PFS under resonance 2.0 - they don’t have the capacity to completely rewrite the magic item chapter during the Playtest, so in order to get it tested, they need to limit the scope to the items in the PFS module and it’s pregens.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Handy Haversack of Hillarity wrote:
magnuskn wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
John Mechalas wrote:

Most of this was looking pretty decent until:

Joe M. wrote:
Death and dying: getting much more deadly. New condition, “wounded,” you acquire when you are healed back up from 0 hp. Next time you drop to 0, your wounded value is added on to your dying value. And since you die at dying 4 ... this can mean insta-death if you’re doing too much up-and-down.

So...the solution to the already complicated dying rules and the character deaths and TPKs is to...make them even more complicated and more deadly?

The Eleven TPKs of Collete Brunel don't count.

Why exactly do they not?

---

Otherwise a good update. Hopefully they will do their spell pass soon.

Read through that person posts for a good hour and you will understand. particularly if you choose a subject you don't agree with him on.

I read through most posts Colette has made about her playtesting experience throughout the last month. She's extremely meticulous in how she applies RAW.


Death and dying is not actually very deadly anymore. It. It might still be a little complicated, but it isn't very deadly. In fact, not only do hero points keep out from dying, but they can bring you back to consciousness the same turn you got dropped.

I had my first player death this week. It required getting crit out of the sky with no one around to save them (a 2 action heal or sooth would have done that for example,) failing their recovery saving throw, and hitting the ground. And I gotta say that would have been overkill in PF1.

I welcome having it be more deadly, and it making players think about the risks of leaping back into the fray while wounded.

Silver Crusade

9 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

In 13 playtest games I ran/played in while ya'll been busy arguing about treadmills, camel speeds and wrought of drought, I've seen 3 PC deaths (two of which were *cough* a result of everybody at the table forgetting about Hero Points) and 1 near wipe. So I'm kind of going to say that 11 TPKs out of 11 games is a statistical outlier.

We haven't done Heroes of Undarin yet though, but this one is designed to be a TPK. Coming up on Monday!


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Handy Haversack of Hillarity wrote:


Read through that person posts for a good hour and you will understand. particularly if you choose a subject you don't agree with him on.

I have no desire to lob personal insults at people. I am more concerned with the actual rule change, and what the impetus was. Were the surveys really filled with GMs or players complaining that PC's just wouldn't stay dead? Or that they didn't have enough conditions to track?

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
John Mechalas wrote:
Handy Haversack of Hillarity wrote:


Read through that person posts for a good hour and you will understand. particularly if you choose a subject you don't agree with him on.
I have no desire to lob personal insults at people. I am more concerned with the actual rule change, and what the impetus was. Were the surveys really filled with GMs or players complaining that PC's just wouldn't stay dead? Or that they didn't have enough conditions to track?

There was talk of survey data showing that dying rules are far too soft for the deadliness target designers were looking at.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
John Mechalas wrote:
Handy Haversack of Hillarity wrote:


Read through that person posts for a good hour and you will understand. particularly if you choose a subject you don't agree with him on.
I have no desire to lob personal insults at people. I am more concerned with the actual rule change, and what the impetus was. We're there really GMs or players complaining in the surveys that their PC's just wouldn't stay dead? Or that they didn't have enough conditions to track?

Anecdotally, my player's paladin was not very happy with losing practically two full turns to going down (slowed 2 pretty much ate a turn by itself), even after a Hero Point was used. He felt that going down should be the penalty itself, and odds are he'd be happier with wounded than he is with the current version.

That's a guess based on his previous complaint, though, given I haven't had the chance to talk to him about the upcoming change.


6 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber

Pretty solid change imo, I wonder though if we will hear anything about magic getting a buff at any point. Though I kinda understand that's a too big of thing for an update.

All and all I really enjoy the changes coming.

Liberty's Edge

10 people marked this as a favorite.

I'm very pleased indeed with the vast majority of these changes, and the few I don't feel that way about (I really don't care much about the -4 untrained penalty) I'm neutral on.

So I'm personally overjoyed by this list, especially the general changes in Skill DCs.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
LiquidLeoc wrote:

Pretty solid change imo, I wonder though if we will hear anything about magic getting a buff at any point. Though I kinda understand that's a too big of thing for an update.

All and all I really enjoy the changes coming.

These updates all sounds pretty good (well I'm still skeptical of the Focus thing they're talking about for consumables). I will be happy to dance on the grave of resonance for consumables. And adding in some real mundane healing sounds great. Might be a little too good, but it's certainly an improvement. It seems they've finally tackled some of the biggest problems. So hopefully now they'll move on to the other big elephant in the room, magic being nerfed into the ground from every direction. But I think you might be right, it might be too big of a change for an update. But I sure hope it's coming. Fixing that would mean my group might actually like PF2.

Monsters need a re-balancing too, but I suspect that's being delayed into the final release. The skill DC changes do seem to show that they're going in the direction of easing the coin-flip math, so monsters would be the logical place to go with that next. But it'd basically be a rewrite of the entire bestiary, so will probably wait.


Cyouni wrote:
Anecdotally, my player's paladin was not very happy with losing practically two full turns to going down (slowed 2 pretty much ate a turn by itself), even after a Hero Point was used. He felt that going down should be the penalty itself, and odds are he'd be happier with wounded than he is with the current version.

I don't think it's fair to say it loses that many turns, because it resets your Init to just before you "go down", so it's more just the amount of Slow depending how deep into Dying you were. If you don't need to pick up weapon/stand/etc the Init reset could even be net gain strictly looking at Init/turn order.


7 people marked this as a favorite.

I'd much rather have wounded than slow when they regain consciousness. Giving players their full turn with a high risk is much more fun than barely a turn with no risk.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

OK, I understand now. I didn't watch the stream, and it wasn't clear from the summary that wounded replaced the other effects instead of added to them. I agree with the change if that's the case.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

The untrained thing worries me. It means you can never hit when doing nonlethal damage.

Liberty's Edge

17 people marked this as a favorite.

Listening to the stream in more depth, Jason seems to hope that mundane healing being an option, combined with such healing being necessary to get rid of Wounded, will sort of necessitate a bit of time to heal up between encounters (which also allows time for repairs and magic item identification), but simultaneously allow for more encounters in a day.

That seems a reasonable hypothesis, and does indeed result in a more natural flow to daily encounters (ie: fight, then rest, then press on rather than the frenetic rush to keep buffs going for as many fights as possible that could be found in PF1). I quite like the idea and hope it does indeed work out that way.

This version does seem to necessitate someone with mundane Medicine skills in the party, but I think that's more feature than bug, and certainly a small burden as compared to being required to have someone with magical healing, since anyone can invest a single Skill Rank in medicine pretty readily, and with decent Wisdom hopefully be an adequate medic.

The Skill changes are also very much of a magnitude I'm happy with, apparently as high as -6 off the current DC at a particular high level (this is presumably the highest difference), and designed to make a specialist's chances of success actually go up as they level. That's all excellent, and really everything I've been hoping for in terms of Skill DCs (assuming monster Skill Bonuses follow suit in terms of reduction before the final game, anyway).

So, basically, listening has made me even happier with the changes, and I think I'm now gonna delay starting my group's run-through of Chapter 4 of Doomsday Dawn (which we were gonna start this weekend) a week, so we can do it with these changes in effect.

I'm really and sincerely pleased by pretty much this whole grab bag of changes, and I know I keep saying that, but it bears repeating.

Frankly, with the 1.3 stuff, some monster stat changes (mostly in terms of skills and Perception, but maybe a tad lower offense), and the Resonance stuff they're talking about, if they throw in a few changes to Ancestries as a whole and some specific Classes, PF2 would be pretty close to ideal as far as I'm concerned (well, it will be when more content comes out, anyway).

We'll see how close that wishlist comes to reality, but pretty much every change thus far has made the game flatly better from my perspective, so I'm pretty hopeful we'll see most of it.

In terms of Resonance, it seems worth noting that we're probably stuck with the current version for most of the rest of the Playtest. They're retrofitting a specific scenario to test the new version, but can't change every single item in the playtest corebook, so playtesting the new version is probably restricted to that scenario. That's understandable, and I'm fine with it since it's not gonna be true of the final game, but it seems worth clarifying.

Liberty's Edge

21 people marked this as a favorite.
Knight Magenta wrote:
The untrained thing worries me. It means you can never hit when doing nonlethal damage.

Nonlethal damage has already been changed to a -2 penalty rather than making attacks Untrained, presumably when it was pointed out that made a Legendary Swordsman more penalized than a Trained one. It's in the existing errata.

So this is not an issue.


It sounds like we are heading in a better direction overall, which is great.

I read the op, recapping the stream and thought, i might aswell listen to the vod which resulted in a few minor questions/concerns;

1) It appears like identifying, repairing and the new medicine option would all take 10 minutes; Does that mean quick repair, quick identification and battle medic will also see adjustments accordingly or will they be dead feats for the time being?

2) With the adjustments to the fighter dedication which was the example used in the vod; wouldn't that just mean the fighter dedication would do pretty much the same thing as the armor proficiency general feat?

3) Considering continuous characters are a thing for part 1/4/7; would that allow retinkering with those characters incase those feats were utilised and build around?

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Dreamtime2k9 wrote:

It sounds like we are heading in a better direction overall, which is great.

I read the op, recapping the stream and thought, i might aswell listen to the vod which resulted in a few minor questions/concerns;

1) It appears like identifying, repairing and the new medicine option would all take 10 minutes; Does that mean quick repair, quick identification and battle medic will also see adjustments accordingly or will they be dead feats for the time being?

We'll probably see adjustments to what they do rather than them ceasing tom exist, since Quick Repair is actually given by a couple of Backgrounds and it's thus much easier to revise than remove.

Dreamtime2k9 wrote:
2) With the adjustments to the fighter dedication which was the example used in the vod; wouldn't that just mean the fighter dedication would do pretty much the same thing as the armor proficiency general feat?

It also gives you Athletics as a Trained Skill and Proficiency with all Martial Weapons, assuming the only thing they tuned down was the armor (which is what it sounded like, he even specifically mentioned they still get the weapons).

Dreamtime2k9 wrote:
3) Considering continuous characters are a thing for part 1/4/7; would that allow retinkering with those characters incase those feats were utilised and build around?

Probably. This is sort of a GM call in general, though if your GM forces you to stick with a Feat that no longer exists rather than giving free retraining, I think you probably need a new GM.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Deadmanwalking wrote:
This version does seem to necessitate someone with mundane Medicine skills in the party, but I think that's more feature than bug, and certainly a small burden as compared to being required to have someone with magical healing, since anyone can invest a single Skill Rank in medicine pretty readily, and with decent Wisdom hopefully be an adequate medic.

I'll need to see how much of a "burden" it actually turns out to be: without knowing the DC or what feats you'll need to keep it up it's hard to say a simple trained rank will work.


4 people marked this as a favorite.

It might be nice if they made this medic stuff a thing rangers could be really good at with their class feats.

You know, some kinda healing poultice thing like Aragorn chewing on some King's Foil and shoving it in Frodo's stab wound. It doesn't have to be more hit points healed (though it could) but maybe like some ghetto mundane Restoration he could use some limited times a day. Or a stew pot he could have going to have everyone heal a tad bit more when they turn in for the night.

It should probably be more like Natural Medicine though (based on Nature vs. Medicine).

Dunno, just spit ballin'.


4 people marked this as a favorite.

It seems they're really listening carefully to the players. And that's very good.

Liberty's Edge

5 people marked this as a favorite.
graystone wrote:
I'll need to see how much of a "burden" it actually turns out to be: without knowing the DC or what feats you'll need to keep it up it's hard to say a simple trained rank will work.

Well, yeah, it needs to be a reasonable DC to be workable. You'll note how I used the word 'hopefully' in there.

But this change is paired with a general reduction in Skill DCs, and seems to be hardwired in to the point of necessity, so I'd be shocked if it's too onerous a DC to deal with.

And you don't need any Feats. He explicitly said that the (medic's Level x target's Con Mod) HP version (plus fixing Wounded) was just a new use of the Medicine Skill. So any Feats would presumably either reduce the time or add more healing, but only the base version is essential.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Still waiting for the update where level 1-5 combats stop being as long as 1st ed level 12+ combats (the drawn out variety, not the SoD I Win variety). It gets entirely too tedious to bother with combat currently.


These changes are a welcome step in the right direction. I still think that certain skills should be tied to certain classes (thievery, stealth to thieves) which auto increase by level and each PC gets a pool of skill points per level to increase their other skills.

That seems a great compromise for the skills issue.


Deadmanwalking wrote:
graystone wrote:
I'll need to see how much of a "burden" it actually turns out to be: without knowing the DC or what feats you'll need to keep it up it's hard to say a simple trained rank will work.

Well, yeah, it needs to be a reasonable DC to be workable. You'll note how I used the word 'hopefully' in there.

But this change is paired with a general reduction in Skill DCs, and seems to be hardwired in to the point of necessity, so I'd be shocked if it's too onerous a DC to deal with.

And you don't need any Feats. He explicitly said that the (medic's Level x target's Con Mod) HP version (plus fixing Wounded) was just a new use of the Medicine Skill. So any Feats would presumably either reduce the time or add more healing, but only the base version is essential.

Did he specify if it had limited uses per day per target? Does it leave them bolstered? I hope not.

I intend to listen to it but might not be able to before tomorrow.


Captain Morgan wrote:
Did he specify if it had limited uses per day per target? Does it leave them bolstered? I hope not.

I think it was bolstered on a critical failure. I had the impression it was unlimited uses barring that.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Captain Morgan wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
graystone wrote:
I'll need to see how much of a "burden" it actually turns out to be: without knowing the DC or what feats you'll need to keep it up it's hard to say a simple trained rank will work.

Well, yeah, it needs to be a reasonable DC to be workable. You'll note how I used the word 'hopefully' in there.

But this change is paired with a general reduction in Skill DCs, and seems to be hardwired in to the point of necessity, so I'd be shocked if it's too onerous a DC to deal with.

And you don't need any Feats. He explicitly said that the (medic's Level x target's Con Mod) HP version (plus fixing Wounded) was just a new use of the Medicine Skill. So any Feats would presumably either reduce the time or add more healing, but only the base version is essential.

Did he specify if it had limited uses per day per target? Does it leave them bolstered? I hope not.

I intend to listen to it but might not be able to before tomorrow.

No limits, but he implied a significant penalty for critical failure of the skill check.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

These are some fantastic changes! Huge step in the right direction.

Dark Archive

14 people marked this as a favorite.
John Lynch 106 wrote:
LuniasM wrote:
Potentially removing consumables from Resonance entirely seems fairly substantial, given that would also imply a major shift in how the Alchemist class works in addition to the obvious wand and potion changes.

Sorry to say this is not an example of them still being willing to make substantial changes. They always knew there was slim to no chance of resonance making it through to the final game in its original format. They took the most extreme position possible with it. I've said from very early on it would never survive and even when they previewed it they very much made it sound like "guys, just test it and then we'll change it."

That isn't to say they're not willing to make substantial changes. Update 1.3 simply isn't an example of this. Changing resonance is an example of them changing something they always knew wouldn't fly.

A substantive change is, by definition, a change that is "important, meaningful, or considerable".

Here's a list of what turning Resonance into a replacement for slots does:
* Alchemist class would need a rewrite on at the very least their two primary class features, since they currently cost RP to use.
* Alchemists could focus on Elixirs without requiring allies to spend their Resonance to get buffs.
* Wands would need a rework since, without Resonance, they could be spammable again.
* All Potions, Elixirs, and other consumables that used Resonance would need to be re-examined and potentially rebalanced since the limiting factor of RP cost would be gone.

Whether you or the devs expected this or not has nothing to do with the fact that a considerable portion of the game would be affected - it is, by definition, a substantive change.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

Basically the devs stated that revising the resonance rules in the ways they are considering would result in a complete rewrite of the magic item chapter (plus other stuff like alchemist and such). Hence why they are updating that PFS scenario for now to allow testing.


19 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Serisan wrote:
Still waiting for the update where level 1-5 combats stop being as long as 1st ed level 12+ combats (the drawn out variety, not the SoD I Win variety). It gets entirely too tedious to bother with combat currently.

I hope to god they don't. It actually feels like a tactical strategy game now in combat instead of "DEAL AS MUCH DAMAGE AS FAST AS POSSIBLE!!!!" and ending combats in 2 or 3 rounds.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

These are all really good changes, thank you

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

These Updates are soo good I almost expect Kobold Cleaver to show up to make things even better.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Joe M. wrote:
But something else to manage how you use magic items. “But we don’t want that system to be one that cuts you off from magic.” That wasn’t fun. Looking at ways for characters to focus on magic. Stuff about some default baseline and then, if you focus on things, getting more above-and-beyond benefits. (This is kind of unclear to me.) “I want to stress ... that we’re still in the design phase” on this.

This is what I've been saying ever since Resonance was first explained. It was a terrible idea to have all your magic items, one of the main rewards of the game, to stop working all together at any point in the game. Had resonance been released as it was, I would have have house ruled all magic items have a basic function, and you could spend resonance to charge it for additional effects.

Glad to see that resonance will be readjusted in this manner. Also glad to see resonance being removed from consumables. That didn't make sense either.

Treat Wounds is also a welcome addition, especially how healing seems a lot more limited in this edition. However, its importance will probably lessen if resonance is confirmed removed from consumables. Still, it's good to have the option there.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

My two copper:

Rogues and Rangers: I'm never against more options for basic class features. Barbarian Totems are a great example of this working well.

Untrained is -4: I'd prefer boosting Trained and up but this is okay too.

Wounded and Treat Wounds: Sounds great. Getting knocked to 0 should be bad. Player should be rewarded for investing in the Medicine skill more, and having Wounded carry over between battles makes combat healing more vital.

Shields: I'd need to see the rules spelled out in precise detail before weighing in on this issue.

Identifying Items: Great, there was no reason for it to take so long before.

Multiclass Archetypes for All Classes: In concept, fantastic. As for execution, we'll see. I hope that the existing feats don't get nerfed into the ground.

Resonance: If Resonance just replaces body slots, and consumables go back to the PF1 method... I think it's a step in the wrong direction. I really, really like the idea of Resonance as a replacement for item charges. If it's just a cap on your worn items it's much less interesting. I'd rather see Pathfinder 2.0 go risky with its mechanics than play it too safe. Perhaps an option to use Resonance in more than one way?


8 people marked this as a favorite.
Deadmanwalking wrote:
This version does seem to necessitate someone with mundane Medicine skills in the party, but I think that's more feature than bug, and certainly a small burden as compared to being required to have someone with magical healing, since anyone can invest a single Skill Rank in medicine pretty readily, and with decent Wisdom hopefully be an adequate medic.

I agree wholeheartedly, but with one addition. I saw a proposal elsewhere that Alchemists should get an ability to use their Intelligence modifier for the Medicine skill, and think that should happen too. Alchemists really should be the masters of non-magical healing, and letting them do it by intelligence would help with that. Maybe also let them use their alchemist tools in place of the healers tools as a way of reducing the need to carry a whole bunch of heavy kits. Plus it's kind of weird that Medicine isn't intelligence based in the first place, but I think that was largely for clerics to continue being healers in other ways.


11 people marked this as a favorite.
Dire Ursus wrote:
Serisan wrote:
Still waiting for the update where level 1-5 combats stop being as long as 1st ed level 12+ combats (the drawn out variety, not the SoD I Win variety). It gets entirely too tedious to bother with combat currently.
I hope to god they don't. It actually feels like a tactical strategy game now in combat instead of "DEAL AS MUCH DAMAGE AS FAST AS POSSIBLE!!!!" and ending combats in 2 or 3 rounds.

I agree. I'm not sure if the original poster is talking about how many rounds it takes, or real world time. My experience is that combats in the playtest are going faster in real world time than in PF1, but taking more rounds. This is exactly the way I want it. In PF1 we'd normally only go 2-3 rounds unless something was really crazy, but it'd often take several hours to do so. Making each round go quicker removes much of the tedium, while having more rounds increases the tactical nature of the game.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Personally my issue with Resonance was the lack of out of combat healing. If mundane healing addresses that then I have no more concerns with Resonance. I still believe that PC should have a limited number of magic items.

I also love the Untrained being -4 now.

Good job!


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Data Lore wrote:

It might be nice if they made this medic stuff a thing rangers could be really good at with their class feats.

You know, some kinda healing poultice thing like Aragorn chewing on some King's Foil and shoving it in Frodo's stab wound. It doesn't have to be more hit points healed (though it could) but maybe like some ghetto mundane Restoration he could use some limited times a day. Or a stew pot he could have going to have everyone heal a tad bit more when they turn in for the night.

It should probably be more like Natural Medicine though (based on Nature vs. Medicine).

Dunno, just spit ballin'.

While I am not sure it needs to be limited to Rangers, I do think it needs to be a thing that Medicine (and/or Nature) can be used not just to fix Hit Points.

Non-magical healing also needs a more impressive way to fix poison and diseases (although certain magical or supernatural diseases might be excepted). Even if it requires Expert level training and/or a Skill Feat.
Robust Recovery is too little.
Legendary Medic is too little, too late.

Alternatively, if Spell(s) that Removed Disease also took awhile to take effect, then you would not need to buff Medicine to not make sense. The spell could still only take 10 minutes to cast, but it would take 8 hours to actually counter the disease. That would also be consistent with most examples of magic curing diseases in most fantasy I have read, the recovery of the sick person still takes time after the magic is cast.


4 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

I have many thoughts, and they are hopeful!

Joe M. wrote:
Rogues: instead of just Finesse Striker, you can choose one of three different paths (finesse, brute, feinter)

I mostly like this change. I'm very happy that you are no longer required to have dex to damage as a rogue, and I hope that the other two styles make themselves the sort of alternatives that make you really have to think about it, rather than being the sort of options that are there to be skipped over.

I just hope the implementation is more bard- or druid-like than sorcerer-like. To clarify: I hope that the options available to one path can be later picked up or mixed-and-matched with other paths as building blocks, rather than a choice you make once and narrows all further options based on that choice.

Joe M. wrote:
Ranger: double slice is dropped for 2 feats: one makes you better with two weapon fighting, one makes you better with ranged (fire twice, if both hit add together)

Okay. Ignoring for the moment that I just within the last couple days finally made up my mind on how I would prefer things relating to combat styles be handled. At least these work better with Hunt Target, I guess? I'm assuming that they'll be 2-actions each, which means that the Ranger is still has incentives to get as many attacks in a round as possible instead of skirmish and keep moving. It's a step in a direction, but is it the right direction? When I was thinking about how I might rewrite the Ranger (and other classes) I partitioned the various 10+ HP classes thusly:

- Barbarian: Many large-damage attacks. Not always the most accurate, but painful if they get you. Probably dishes and takes the most individual damage in a round, toe-to-toe.

- Fighter: Versatility personified. Can switch from trading blows, to skirmishing, to dueling, to tanking. Can be good at all, or supreme at one.

- Monk: Mobile debuff threat. Gets close, applies decent damage and uses training and knowledge of the body and spirit to weaken the opponent, then gets back out of reach. They may not deal the most damage at once, but the more time they get with enemy, the worse that enemy's position becomes.

- Paladin: Defensive expert. Likes the enemy to come to them, and keeps the enemy focus squarely on themselves. Can deal great damage if the enemy falls into a specific category, or persistently ignores the paladin, but generally succeeds by making enemy turns futile through misses and healing and letting action economy win the day.

- Ranger: Mobile skirmisher. Uses terrain, cover and stealth to consistently deal one, large hit and then disappear again. Hard to pin down, doesn't want to stand still and trade blows. Sniper extraordinaire.

Joe M. wrote:
Proficiency: untrained is now (lvl - 4). Also, skill DCs are adjusted, and lowered overall. Net result: as you get better and better you get more and more certain of success. Every skill DC in Doomsday Dawn updated to reflect

I don't really have much to say here. I don't think this would be necessary if the skill feats made more of a difference? I find the whole skill feats section a little narrow and underwhelming. You already need to be at least trained to do a lot of what skills let you do, so I'm not sure that making untrained worse is a better direction than making trained+ better. It's that carrot and stick thing all over again. Sometimes I worry that the developers have forget that carrots are a thing, and that horses people like them.

Joe M. wrote:
Death and dying: getting much more deadly. New condition, “wounded,” you acquire when you are healed back up from 0 hp. Next time you drop to 0, your wounded value is added on to your dying value. And since you die at dying 4 ... this can mean insta-death if you’re doing too much up-and-down.

This is interesting. What magnitude of effect his has will depend largely on how you can get rid of the wounded condition and how accessible that is. Can either eliminate the yo-yo or just add more steps to it. We'll see!

Joe M. wrote:
Mundane Healing: Medicine gets a new function: Treat Wounds. This removes Wounded and also heals damage. Cures (healer’s lvl) * (your con mod) hp. Makes out-of-combat mundane healing very possible, making magical healing more for in-combat, mundane healing for out-of-combat.

Oh god, I really, really, really hope that they made mundane healing useful. All this will depend on one word: bolstered. If the "B" word shows up too quickly, then this will all be an exercise in futility. Please be good. Please be good. PLEASE.

Joe M. wrote:
Shields: no multiple dents. One dent and then the rest of the damage goes to you.

This is how I thought it worked all along. Glad to see it clarified as such.

Joe M. wrote:
Identifying magic items: doesn’t take as long. I wasn’t clear on how long it will take in new rules, but works with someone else using Medicine to heal everyone.

I think tying the action times for a bunch of common downtime activities together is a great idea. I would offer one suggestion, though: maybe allow for some level of bulk identification? This is a PF1 example, but I just told a group after a boss fight that they detected 28 magic auras. Many of those were duplicates, sure, and that's PF1 so the treasure is probably coming at different rates, but still. It's something to consider. Do the rules specify what happens when you've literally just identified another one of this thing? I don't remember, but it would be cool if you could identify, say, a healing potion and then realize that the other 6 same-colored and sized potions are more of the same thing and you can move on with your life.

Joe M. wrote:

ALL 12 MULTICLASS ARCHETYPES. Goal: you can do this class thing, but you can’t just be a better Barbarian than the Barbarian herself. The 4 we have are rebalanced. Biggest change to Fighter, which a *lot* of folks had been grabbing for armor proficiency. Now it will just step up your armor prof to the next level. (If you want more armor proficiency from archetype, try Paladin ... if you meet those restrictions.) They will keep a close eye on this. This is a separate pdf to put all multiclass together, easier to reference.

The Monday blog will have more details.

I await these with great curiosity. Not enough to go on to form an opinion one way or the other.

Joe M. wrote:


### RESONANCE ###
*Not* for Monday’s update (1.3), but for future: Working on the update to Resonance. They’ve been meeting every week to talk about it, waiting on data. They’ve been seeing problems in the data. They rethought from “what did we want this to do?” They arrived at a different strategy. It was trying to do too much in one system.

Resonance shifting to just a system to manage permanent magic items, replace slot system. “The moment we tried to tie it to consumable usage and things like that, that’s when we started to have problems. Because those two things were competing with one another in a way that was unsatisfactory.” So resonance will just fix the slot system, which was a big problem. Worn items resonate with each other and don’t work together if you wear too many.

But something else to manage how you use magic items. “But we don’t want that system to be one that cuts you off from magic.” That wasn’t fun. Looking at ways for characters to focus on magic. Stuff about some default baseline and then, if you focus on things, getting more above-and-beyond benefits. (This is kind of unclear to me.) “I want to stress ... that we’re still in the design phase” on this.

They want to thoroughly test by rewriting the PFS module Raiders of the Shrieking Peak as a specific test of this. “This might take us 3 or 4 weeks to get ready.” Still in the process of designing the system, then probably some internal testing.

This sounds like they're making resonance exactly what I hoped and dreamed it would be. I really hope they take all the carrot-and-stick feedback to heart and give us something awesome!

Joe M. wrote:
New character sheet. Minor adjustments, including senses line.

Okay. I appreciate that they're tweaking the character sheet to make it more usable, but I have to say that there's probably no amount of tweaking that will make me feel less like barfing when I look at it. There's something about it (the layout? landscape? I dunno) that actually makes me feel something like motion sickness. Fortunately for me and everyone around me, I prefer using excel for character sheets instead anyway. ::shrug::

51 to 100 of 328 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Archive / Pathfinder / Playtests & Prerelease Discussions / Pathfinder Playtest / Pathfinder Playtest General Discussion / Twitch 9-21: Preview of Rules Update 1.3 All Messageboards