Assumed form (sp) of Intrigue Oracle Mystery: Clarification


Rules Questions


Hey guys, I was checking out the intrigue oracle (which I love) but had some trouble figuring out what one of their main cool revelations actually does. Just for reference, this is the ability:
"Assumed Form (Sp)

You can change your appearance at will, as disguise self with a caster level equal to your oracle level.

At 7th level, you can choose to actually transform, which works the same way but counts as a polymorph effect instead of an illusion and doesn’t allow a Will save to disbelieve.

At 11th level, the ability lasts until you dismiss it or use it again, allowing you to even keep it active while you sleep.

At 15th level, when you use this ability as a polymorph effect, you can gain the size bonus to your ability scores and additional racial abilities as if using alter self."

First of all, disguise self limits what you can change into based on your type. So what I gather is that you can't turn into an elf if you are, let's say, an assimar (unless you take the trait that counts you as human). But eventually it functions as alter self sort of? Disguise self doesn't let you change size but you eventually get the size bonuses to ability scores and racial abilities as if using alter self? Exactly how does this ability work if everything keys off of disguise self, primarily?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

It does exactly as it says.

All limitations and bonuses are like disguise self except as noted.

At 7th no will save. At 11th no duration. At 15th you get either +2 dex or +2 str.

Nothing more.


Dave Justus wrote:

It does exactly as it says.

All limitations and bonuses are like disguise self except as noted.

At 7th no will save. At 11th no duration. At 15th you get either +2 dex or +2 str.

Nothing more.

Understood. However, the 15th level improvement hinges on the oracles ability to change size, correct? Hence "size bonuses to your ability score". Disguise self, which this entire ability is based on, does not allow you to change your size category. So you'd get a +2 bonus to dex if the ability let you shrink, but it does not. One foot taller or shorter (as per the disguise self limitations) does not equate to changing an entire size category

hence my dilemma


You don't need to change size to get a size bonus from Alter Self. If you take a medium form, Alter Self gives you +2 Strength. If you take a small form, it gives you +2 Dexterity. What size you had before doesn't matter. A human taking a human form still gets +2 ST. Greater Hat of Disguise is a neat stat-boosting item.

Since you're stuck in your size category when using Disguise Self, you're also stuck either always getting the strength bonus (if you're medium) or always getting the dexterity bonus (when small) when you use Assumed Form, but you still get a bonus.


Sorry for the necro, hope it's not too old.

Does the disguise self ability maintain the disguise self limitations even if used as alter self?

As an extreme example, lets say we have a Ghoran intrigue oracle using the disguise self level ability to appear as a Green Man or Fungus Queen, both medium plant creatures and thus available to him through disguise self. At 7th level the effect becomes a polymorph effect and removes the save. At 11th level it never ends. At 15th level he can gain the strength bonus for appearing as another medium creature.

However, at 7th level when it becomes a polymorph effect and really transforms the character, he'd be gaining some substantial natural weapon attacks due to the polymorph rules. And at 15th level, his disguise stops being a valid option if it uses the restrictions from alter self.

Whimsy's assumed form is similar and has similar issues.


I would interpret “Works the same way” as meaning has the same effects as the illusion, to include no new natural attacks etc. When it starts acting like alter self, it only gives abilities and ability score changes as alter self. I think the language is unclear whether plant types can get anything from the 15th level version (I’d be fine with it), but in any event use of the lower level variations will still be available.

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