Tempered Champion Question for FAQ


Rules Questions

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

“Tempered champions are trained to master their deities’ favored weapons.”

That’s interesting considering both the base paladin and the archetype aren’t proficient with the deity’s weapon like a cleric or warpriest are. Can we please make an errata that fixes this? Kind of difficult to “master” a weapon when you’re dumping feats just to be proficient in a deity’s exotic weapon or unarmed strike.


What's the rules question?

Grand Lodge

blahpers wrote:
What's the rules question?

Do they or do they not have a deity's favored weapon?


If it's a simple or martial weapon, sure, just like any paladin. If it's an exotic weapon, they'll need exotic weapon proficiency. If it's unarmed strike, they'll need improved unarmed strike. If it' some sort of natural attack, they'll need a means of gaining that natural attack.

Grand Lodge

blahpers wrote:
If it's a simple or martial weapon, sure, just like any paladin. If it's an exotic weapon, they'll need exotic weapon proficiency. If it's unarmed strike, they'll need improved unarmed strike. If it' some sort of natural attack, they'll need a means of gaining that natural attack.

Right. But if the point of the archetype is to "master" their deity's weapon, they shouldn't need to go about it in such a round about way. This seems like a mistake on the designer's part. Could have just removed heavy armor proficiency and given them the deity weapon proficiency. Or something else along those lines.


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

This doesn't become an issue until 4th level, and is completely dependent on the players choice of deity. I don't see a compelling reason to give the paladin a free feat because they want to do something exotic. Considering the class gives up spell casting for bonus feats, I think its fair to expect them to cough up one feat if they choose to go unarmed, or with an exotic weapon.

What is even stranger is there is no requirement for the Tempered Champion to select a deity. You can be a Tempered Champion without a deity and select all of your bonus feats without touching Divine Fighting Technique. Just take Weapon Focus and you're covered for the Warpriest ability.


Can't remember right off hand what Alignment a paladin is restricted to for Diety but if we follow the one step rule we have a whopping 7 choices that would need a feat to use.

If we go only LG then not single one needs a feat unless they want to use it differently like a katana or bastard sword.


Both Abadar and Shelyn have paladin codes, so I'd go with the one step rule that clerics follow, but I don't recall seeing that in writing.


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
kevin_video wrote:
blahpers wrote:
If it's a simple or martial weapon, sure, just like any paladin. If it's an exotic weapon, they'll need exotic weapon proficiency. If it's unarmed strike, they'll need improved unarmed strike. If it' some sort of natural attack, they'll need a means of gaining that natural attack.
Right. But if the point of the archetype is to "master" their deity's weapon, they shouldn't need to go about it in such a round about way. This seems like a mistake on the designer's part. Could have just removed heavy armor proficiency and given them the deity weapon proficiency. Or something else along those lines.

Sure, Paizo could have designed it that way, but for whatever reason they didn't. They didn't add proficiency to the weapon master fighter archetype either, though they did for the cleric and warpriest classes (as you mentioned) and the kensai magus archetype. There are probably other examples of both.

Explicit requests for rule changes, however, aren't really in the bailiwick of the Rules Questions forum. There's plenty of room for discussion as to why the rules are as they are and whether to cheerfully ignore them at your table, but that's more of a General Discussion or Homebrew forum thread.

Grand Lodge

And neither of those allow for FAQ tags. But it's good to know the weapon master is also missing that.

And like others, I don't get to "cheerfully ignore" such things at my table. GMs are rules lawyers too.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Tempered Champion Question for FAQ All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.