paizo.com Recent Posts in Pathfinder Samurai "katana Duelist" build helppaizo.com Recent Posts in Pathfinder Samurai "katana Duelist" build help2018-10-04T16:24:55Z2018-10-04T16:24:55ZRe: Forums: Advice and Rules Questions: Pathfinder Samurai "katana Duelist" build helpcalagnarhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs429wu?Pathfinder-Samurai-katana-Duelist-build-help#122018-10-04T16:24:55Z2018-09-17T09:43:10Z<p>suggestions. For you to think about.
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1: Going Dex base and picking up three levels of Unchained Rogue for dex to damage on wakizashi. </p>
<p>2: Have a bow as your “primary weapon”. You start most or all combat with a bow and switch to the sword when the enemy closes with you. You don’t need to spend feats on it. Just use it until they close with you. Reducing the need for you to close with them. Increasing the number of attacks, you get on them. The only feat you need to pull this off is quick draw and you can get it at level 1. One of the most effective ways to survive with a low AC getting started.
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(At one time I made a Samurai with a Con 8. Did it to see how long he could live and effective he could be. Using this method he made it to level 5. He did not die I just stopped going to PFSP. I built him as a two weapon fighting AC build.) </p>
<p>3: A new architype you my wish to look at. Warrior Poet (Samurai Archetype) from heroes from the fringe. High lights gain a bonus to Armor Class equal to her Charisma bonus. The warrior poet gains Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat and can apply its benefits to katanas as if they were light weapons. There is more but you do give up a lot of things for it. Over all a very nice archetype for what you want to do.</p>suggestions. For you to think about.
1: Going Dex base and picking up three levels of Unchained Rogue for dex to damage on wakizashi.
2: Have a bow as your “primary weapon”. You start most or all combat with a bow and switch to the sword when the enemy closes with you. You don’t need to spend feats on it. Just use it until they close with you. Reducing the need for you to close with them. Increasing the number of attacks, you get on them. The only feat you need to pull this off is quick draw...calagnar2018-09-17T09:43:10ZRe: Forums: Advice and Rules Questions: Pathfinder Samurai "katana Duelist" build helpavrhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs429wu?Pathfinder-Samurai-katana-Duelist-build-help#112018-10-04T16:24:55Z2018-09-17T05:51:48Z<p>In a bit more detail, a human swashbuckler 1 / kinetic knight pyrokineticist 5 might look like this:
<br />
[Spoiler omitted]</p>
<p>An elf kensai 6 might look like this:
<br />
[Spoiler omitted]</p>
<p>Back to humans and a myrmidon 1 / phantom spiritualist 5 might look like this:
<br />
[Spoiler omitted]</p>In a bit more detail, a human swashbuckler 1 / kinetic knight pyrokineticist 5 might look like this:
[Spoiler omitted]
An elf kensai 6 might look like this:
[Spoiler omitted]
Back to humans and a myrmidon 1 / phantom spiritualist 5 might look like this:
[Spoiler omitted]avr2018-09-17T05:51:48ZRe: Forums: Advice and Rules Questions: Pathfinder Samurai "katana Duelist" build helpSlim Jimhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs429wu?Pathfinder-Samurai-katana-Duelist-build-help#102018-10-04T16:24:55Z2018-09-17T04:24:51Z<p>ikaniban, if your GM loves him some saving-throws from the PCs, you hang on tight to the samurai's Resolve ability, because it truly is one of the best goodies in the game that any class gets. Then stack in Honor in All Things from Order of the Warrior:</p>
<p>GM: <i>"The pretty lady with the fangs wants to give you a hickey and a roll in the hay. Oh, I'm sorry, did I say fangs? I meant make a will save!"</i></p>
<p>Fighter PC: <rolls a d20; grimaces> <i>"Whatever you want, my love. Can you help me get out of these heavy things?"</i></p>
<p>Samurai PC: <roll2 two d20s and adds 4 to the high one> <i>"Sorry, darling, but you're just not my type."</i> <draws steel></p>ikaniban, if your GM loves him some saving-throws from the PCs, you hang on tight to the samurai's Resolve ability, because it truly is one of the best goodies in the game that any class gets. Then stack in Honor in All Things from Order of the Warrior:
GM: "The pretty lady with the fangs wants to give you a hickey and a roll in the hay. Oh, I'm sorry, did I say fangs? I meant make a will save!"
Fighter PC: "Whatever you want, my love. Can you help me get out of these heavy things?"
...Slim Jim2018-09-17T04:24:51ZRe: Forums: Advice and Rules Questions: Pathfinder Samurai "katana Duelist" build helpavrhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs429wu?Pathfinder-Samurai-katana-Duelist-build-help#92018-10-04T16:24:55Z2018-09-17T00:46:19Z<p>Not falling unconscious when below zero HP is a trait; beaten, not broken. Assuming it happens only once/day. Or a feat chain but I think the trait is good enough. Recovery from and ignoring some condtions is harder - other samurai and a kineticist with the kinetic knight archetype have the exact same ability, otherwise spells like surmount affliction, placebo effect or various status condition healing spells may fit the bill.</p>
<p>The thing about the swashbuckler is that it only needs to be a one level dip on something else. Probably something with better saves given your criteria. A kensai magus can pick up the same ability at 3rd level, but with a more restricted pool to work with. It's definitely doable.</p>
<p>An option I like would be swashbuckler 1 / kinetic knight kineticist X. Cutting up someone with a katana made out of fire or lightning has got to have style points. You're probably only going to have enough strength to carry your armor if that's a style problem though.</p>
<p>Straight kensai magus, with the flamboyant arcana used to parry with is nothing shabby. Your spells can help protect you. You'll probably want extra arcane pool. </p>
<p>Myrmidon swashbuckler 1 / phantom blade spiritualist X uses a magus-oid which gets many more condition removal spells than an actual magus.</p>Not falling unconscious when below zero HP is a trait; beaten, not broken. Assuming it happens only once/day. Or a feat chain but I think the trait is good enough. Recovery from and ignoring some condtions is harder - other samurai and a kineticist with the kinetic knight archetype have the exact same ability, otherwise spells like surmount affliction, placebo effect or various status condition healing spells may fit the bill.
The thing about the swashbuckler is that it only needs to be a...avr2018-09-17T00:46:19ZRe: Forums: Advice and Rules Questions: Pathfinder Samurai "katana Duelist" build helpikanibanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs429wu?Pathfinder-Samurai-katana-Duelist-build-help#82018-10-04T16:24:55Z2018-09-17T00:06:22Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">avr wrote:</div><blockquote><p> If you use heavy armour then the additional abilities from the archetype amount to the signature ability of the swashbuckler, but both nerfed and split between levels 5 and 14 rather than being gained at level 1, and a +2 reflex save. In exchange for losing the mount and related abilities, and one feat to get the heavy armor. This and the fact the samurai isn't top tier to begin with makes it a very weak class. You can simulate and better it in several ways.</p>
<p>The easiest equivalent is any other cavalier archetype which loses the mount, or a fighter, or the myrmidon srchetype of the swashbuckler. These are each better in several ways. What do you want to get out of the character? Just fighting with a 2H katana and presumably being tough, or are there some more criteria? </blockquote><p>I like the other abilities the samurai gets such as the challenge and the method of survivability the ronin order/samurai get. The whole idea of not falling unconscious even after falling below 0 as well as the not dying from outside of your challenge dmg at lvl20 just screams the idea of samurai to me. It’s a shame it’s so poorly balanced. Katana duelist stuck out to me because it had the idea of a samurai parrying and then quickly counter-attacking (riposte). If you think this can be better maximized with a swashbuckler, while still maintaining some form of survivability I’d really appreciate some advice. On top of this I heard kensai as a magus archetype might fit this bill as well as the 3rd party ronin swashbuckler archetype. Tell me what you think. Thanks again for your help!!!avr wrote:If you use heavy armour then the additional abilities from the archetype amount to the signature ability of the swashbuckler, but both nerfed and split between levels 5 and 14 rather than being gained at level 1, and a +2 reflex save. In exchange for losing the mount and related abilities, and one feat to get the heavy armor. This and the fact the samurai isn't top tier to begin with makes it a very weak class. You can simulate and better it in several ways.
The easiest equivalent...ikaniban2018-09-17T00:06:22ZRe: Forums: Advice and Rules Questions: Pathfinder Samurai "katana Duelist" build helpavrhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs429wu?Pathfinder-Samurai-katana-Duelist-build-help#72018-10-04T16:24:55Z2018-09-16T22:02:36Z<p>If you use heavy armour then the additional abilities from the archetype amount to the signature ability of the swashbuckler, but both nerfed and split between levels 5 and 14 rather than being gained at level 1, and a +2 reflex save. In exchange for losing the mount and related abilities, and one feat to get the heavy armor. This and the fact the samurai isn't top tier to begin with makes it a very weak class. You can simulate and better it in several ways.</p>
<p>The easiest equivalent is any other cavalier archetype which loses the mount, or a fighter, or the myrmidon srchetype of the swashbuckler. These are each better in several ways. What do you want to get out of the character? Just fighting with a 2H katana and presumably being tough, or are there some more criteria?</p>If you use heavy armour then the additional abilities from the archetype amount to the signature ability of the swashbuckler, but both nerfed and split between levels 5 and 14 rather than being gained at level 1, and a +2 reflex save. In exchange for losing the mount and related abilities, and one feat to get the heavy armor. This and the fact the samurai isn't top tier to begin with makes it a very weak class. You can simulate and better it in several ways.
The easiest equivalent is any...avr2018-09-16T22:02:36ZRe: Forums: Advice and Rules Questions: Pathfinder Samurai "katana Duelist" build helpSlim Jimhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs429wu?Pathfinder-Samurai-katana-Duelist-build-help#62018-10-04T16:24:55Z2018-09-16T21:45:46Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">ikaniban wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Slim Jim wrote:</div><blockquote>If you're going to play a medium/light-armor samurai, go whole hog base-class samurai with a barbarian[urban] dip, extra rage, and TWF a pair of wakizashis w/Piranha Strike after BAB4. And keep your mount. </blockquote>what about spending a feat on heavy armor prof.? would that fix the dex/AC issue? </blockquote><p>Then you're spending a feat on top of your GM's bandaid to try to make this thing work as well as a <i>normal</i> samurai. (And you're still giving up your mount.)
<p>Let's zero in on another deficiency:<div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote><i>Riposte: Starting at 14th level, a katana duelist can make an attack of opportunity against any creature whose attack she successfully parries, so long as the creature she is attacking is within reach.</i></blockquote><p>Well, that's nice. —Know who else can do that? A swashbuckler. At 1st level, by triggering Opportune Parry and Riposte. (And, if taking Slashing Grace, they can use a katana in place of a rapier if that's more to their style.)
<p>Meanwhile, back at 14th level, the regular samurai spends 700gp to retrain in Mounted Skirmisher in order to full attack after his mount's move. (That is, if he didn't dip a level of Sohei monk to snarf Mounted Skirmisher at 2nd or 3rd level, which is what I would totally do if I were TWFing a pair of waks. Hell, said multiclass is even thematically appropriate, i.e., makes "within universe" sense rather than being an incongruous mound of cheese like most tinkertoy builds)</p>ikaniban wrote:Slim Jim wrote:If you're going to play a medium/light-armor samurai, go whole hog base-class samurai with a barbarian[urban] dip, extra rage, and TWF a pair of wakizashis w/Piranha Strike after BAB4. And keep your mount.
what about spending a feat on heavy armor prof.? would that fix the dex/AC issue? Then you're spending a feat on top of your GM's bandaid to try to make this thing work as well as a normal samurai. (And you're still giving up your mount.) Let's zero in on...Slim Jim2018-09-16T21:45:46ZRe: Forums: Advice and Rules Questions: Pathfinder Samurai "katana Duelist" build helpikanibanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs429wu?Pathfinder-Samurai-katana-Duelist-build-help#52018-10-04T16:24:55Z2018-09-16T21:07:12Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Slim Jim wrote:</div><blockquote> <browsing KD link> ....balls, this is one screwball archetype. How any of them manage to survive to 3rd level without armor I can't imagine. They get much worse armor (their INT bonus) and have to forfeit their mount (i.e., no elevation bonus and 50' move for you) to get it. The major benefit of the class doesn't come online until 5th (but isn't useful, unless Hasted or TWFing, until BAB6 a level later), and seems to only be useful in those instances in which you kill your opponent (after declaring a full attack) while still having attacks left (in which case you reserve them for off-turn parries versus new opponents).<div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote>The big problem is that your AC unarmored isn't going to be amazing even with Int added to AC. And you're a meleer. The monk problem.</blockquote>They're much worse than monks, who at least have free early feats, extra attacks, scaling damage, Ki powers, great saves, evasion, and other built-in defenses (many automatic).<div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote>My DM said that he would let me trade out my unarmored defense for medium armor proficiency</blockquote><p>While it helps you survive at low level, it means you'll need good dexterity (since you won't be wearing heavy armor), <i>and the archetype's advancing AC Bonus granted every 4th level will shut off since you're wearing armor!</i>
<p>—If you're going to play a medium/light-armor samurai, go whole hog base-class samurai with a barbarian[urban] dip, extra rage, and TWF a pair of wakizashis w/Piranha Strike after BAB4. And keep your mount. </blockquote><p>what about spending a feat on heavy armor prof.? would that fix the dex/AC issue?Slim Jim wrote: ....balls, this is one screwball archetype. How any of them manage to survive to 3rd level without armor I can't imagine. They get much worse armor (their INT bonus) and have to forfeit their mount (i.e., no elevation bonus and 50' move for you) to get it. The major benefit of the class doesn't come online until 5th (but isn't useful, unless Hasted or TWFing, until BAB6 a level later), and seems to only be useful in those instances in which you kill your opponent (after...ikaniban2018-09-16T21:07:12ZRe: Forums: Advice and Rules Questions: Pathfinder Samurai "katana Duelist" build helpSlim Jimhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs429wu?Pathfinder-Samurai-katana-Duelist-build-help#42018-10-04T16:24:55Z2018-09-16T20:26:12Z<p><browsing KD link> ....balls, this is one screwball archetype. How any of them manage to survive to 3rd level without armor I can't imagine. They get much worse armor (their INT bonus) and have to forfeit their mount (i.e., no elevation bonus and 50' move for you) to get it. The major benefit of the class doesn't come online until 5th (but isn't useful, unless Hasted or TWFing, until BAB6 a level later), and seems to only be useful in those instances in which you kill your opponent (after declaring a full attack) while still having attacks left (in which case you reserve them for off-turn parries versus new opponents).<div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote>The big problem is that your AC unarmored isn't going to be amazing even with Int added to AC. And you're a meleer. The monk problem.</blockquote>They're much worse than monks, who at least have free early feats, extra attacks, scaling damage, Ki powers, great saves, evasion, and other built-in defenses (many automatic).<div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote>My DM said that he would let me trade out my unarmored defense for medium armor proficiency</blockquote><p>While it helps you survive at low level, it means you'll need good dexterity (since you won't be wearing heavy armor), <i>and the archetype's advancing AC Bonus granted every 4th level will shut off since you're wearing armor!</i>
<p>—If you're going to play a medium/light-armor samurai, go whole hog base-class samurai with a barbarian[urban] dip, extra rage, and TWF a pair of wakizashis w/Piranha Strike after BAB4. And keep your mount.</p>....balls, this is one screwball archetype. How any of them manage to survive to 3rd level without armor I can't imagine. They get much worse armor (their INT bonus) and have to forfeit their mount (i.e., no elevation bonus and 50' move for you) to get it. The major benefit of the class doesn't come online until 5th (but isn't useful, unless Hasted or TWFing, until BAB6 a level later), and seems to only be useful in those instances in which you kill your opponent (after declaring a full...Slim Jim2018-09-16T20:26:12ZRe: Forums: Advice and Rules Questions: Pathfinder Samurai "katana Duelist" build helpikanibanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs429wu?Pathfinder-Samurai-katana-Duelist-build-help#32018-10-04T16:24:55Z2018-09-16T19:49:26Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">avr wrote:</div><blockquote><p> The big problem is that your AC unarmored isn't going to be amazing even with Int added to AC. And you're a meleer. The monk problem. Order of the Ronin only helps if an enemy challenges/smites/etc. you first which is rare outside an actual duel, uncommon in one, and not a big bonus anyway. Order of the Eastern Star would be better. The parry ability arrives at level 5 and is pretty weak.</p>
<p>One option is to go for snake style to give you a decent AC against one attack per round. The resolve ability suggests you'll want some Wis bonus anyway; you were already going to be dependent on multiple abilities (MAD).</p>
<p>A different one would be to dip in a class which can add some defence. Magus for the mage armor spell before combat, and spell combat with the shield spell in combat would be best if you can tolerate spellcasting. You could simulate that with the use magic device skill, the pragmatic activator trait and wands, but it'll take a while to get enough skill to be reliable and it's not as good. </p>
<p>Alternately a dip in swashbuckler gets you a parry which doesn't cost an attack, it grants you an attack. Absurdly better, and possibly earlier too. The myrmidon archetype (also by Flaming Crab Games) and the perfomance weapon mastery feat will let you use your 2H katana and still regain panache. </blockquote><p>My DM said that he would let me trade out my unarmored defense for medium armor proficiency, due to his weird point buy system that he is implementing.The system is going to make it particularly hard for MAD characters to stay afloat so he said that i could switch it out. With this change do you think I would deal enough damage and have enough survivability to stay mildly useful?avr wrote:The big problem is that your AC unarmored isn't going to be amazing even with Int added to AC. And you're a meleer. The monk problem. Order of the Ronin only helps if an enemy challenges/smites/etc. you first which is rare outside an actual duel, uncommon in one, and not a big bonus anyway. Order of the Eastern Star would be better. The parry ability arrives at level 5 and is pretty weak.
One option is to go for snake style to give you a decent AC against one attack per round. The...ikaniban2018-09-16T19:49:26ZRe: Forums: Advice and Rules Questions: Pathfinder Samurai "katana Duelist" build helpavrhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs429wu?Pathfinder-Samurai-katana-Duelist-build-help#22018-10-04T16:24:55Z2018-09-16T10:46:11Z<p>The big problem is that your AC unarmored isn't going to be amazing even with Int added to AC. And you're a meleer. The monk problem. Order of the Ronin only helps if an enemy challenges/smites/etc. you first which is rare outside an actual duel, uncommon in one, and not a big bonus anyway. Order of the Eastern Star would be better. The parry ability arrives at level 5 and is pretty weak.</p>
<p>One option is to go for snake style to give you a decent AC against one attack per round. The resolve ability suggests you'll want some Wis bonus anyway; you were already going to be dependent on multiple abilities (MAD).</p>
<p>A different one would be to dip in a class which can add some defence. Magus for the mage armor spell before combat, and spell combat with the shield spell in combat would be best if you can tolerate spellcasting. You could simulate that with the use magic device skill, the pragmatic activator trait and wands, but it'll take a while to get enough skill to be reliable and it's not as good. </p>
<p>Alternately a dip in swashbuckler gets you a parry which doesn't cost an attack, it grants you an attack. Absurdly better, and possibly earlier too. The myrmidon archetype (also by Flaming Crab Games) and the perfomance weapon mastery feat will let you use your 2H katana and still regain panache.</p>The big problem is that your AC unarmored isn't going to be amazing even with Int added to AC. And you're a meleer. The monk problem. Order of the Ronin only helps if an enemy challenges/smites/etc. you first which is rare outside an actual duel, uncommon in one, and not a big bonus anyway. Order of the Eastern Star would be better. The parry ability arrives at level 5 and is pretty weak.
One option is to go for snake style to give you a decent AC against one attack per round. The resolve...avr2018-09-16T10:46:11ZForums: Advice and Rules Questions: Pathfinder Samurai "katana Duelist" build helpikanibanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs429wu?Pathfinder-Samurai-katana-Duelist-build-help#12018-10-04T16:24:55Z2018-09-16T10:13:38Z<p>looking for help/advice on how to build the samurai katana duelist archetype. any advice would help. starting at lvl1, looking for the two-handed katana samurai feel. thinking of going order of the ronin for survivability and going potentially crit feats. </p>
<p>https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/alternate-classes/samurai/archetypes/flami ng-crab-games-samurai-archetypes/katana-duelist</p>looking for help/advice on how to build the samurai katana duelist archetype. any advice would help. starting at lvl1, looking for the two-handed katana samurai feel. thinking of going order of the ronin for survivability and going potentially crit feats.
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/alternate-classes/samurai/archetypes/flami ng-crab-games-samurai-archetypes/katana-duelistikaniban2018-09-16T10:13:38Z