Day by day sorcerer feels off.


Classes


6 people marked this as a favorite.

I share many of the concerns about sorcerers, number of feats, limited support for non-arcane bloodlines, comparing negatively to other classes, having to study like a wizard to get uncommon and rare spells, etc.

One thing that bothers me that has been barely mentioned about the sorcerer is having to make daily choices, it feels wrong. IMO the sorcerer shouldn't have to make daily choices, they make the class feel more like a learned wizard and less like an innate spellcaster. Sorcerer abilities work best when they are something "hardcoded" -or at least mostly permanent- or something entirely reactive -tactical not strategic-, so having abilities like "choose an arcane/occult spell every day to prepare..." takes away that feeling. Very much the same with familiars and spontaneous heightening, having to choose which two spells get the benefit -and which ones don't which renders them essentially useless if having more than two- forces the sorcerer to be a planner. Sorcerers shouldn't have to plan ahead!.

The more I think it, the more I feel that such day to day changes don't belong in the sorcerer. I would feel better about the sorcerer if these features worked differently.

Spontaneous Heightening.- There's two possibilities, either they are fixed at each level up as some sort of signature spells -and maybe add one more if making them static proves to be too limited-, or keep them malleable, but instead of playing pretend wizard every morning, you get to assign them and shift them on the fly with one or two actions. -Or maybe using a minute to change them if that proves too good, or maybe lower them to one at the time-.

Arcane Evolution.- Feels wrong, prepare a different one each day is wizard lite, and having to rely on an external object is quite unsorcery. Maybe just add the spell permanently -with the chance to retrain at level up-, and perhaps add a second/third spell if it turns out to be too weak.

Occult Evolution.- Again, just make it one or two permanent spells known.(Maybe allow for uncommon spells?)

Familiar.- Having to rebuild your familiar everyday feels wrong. How about making it static outside of level-up? and maybe get one extra ability if it being fixed is too weak.

What do you think? does anybody feel the same, or am I just babbling incoherent thoughts?


2 people marked this as a favorite.

I think I've never heard those exact "concerns?" about the Sorcerer before. Honestly, it's hard to tell what it is.

The Sorcerer has always had to be more of a planner than the Wizard to some degree. Wizards have always been able to do lots of short-term planning because their overall goal is to know all the spells, and therefore have all the answers. Sorcerers have to pick their spells more carefully and play the long game a lot more. Every non-bloodline spell they know has always had to be something they were certain could last them a while.

So I'm uncertain if your feelings on a Sorcerer will match up.


7 people marked this as a favorite.

I do agree that the limited spontaneous heightening felt strange and I really doubt it's necessary.
Having limited spells known is already a harsh restriction, making you unable to at least use all of the levels of spells feels unintuitive and restrictive. I agree that it just doesn't feel like a Sorcerer to decide in the morning if I need fireballs or acid spells at the highest level, and it would feel really awful to learn fireball 1 and fireball 3


2 people marked this as a favorite.

The sorcerer has always been a learned Caster. Go read the full class description in PF1. They just do it through different means than the wizard.


7 people marked this as a favorite.

Sorcerers are far worse than wizards in PF2. There is just no reason to play one.


Kodyboy wrote:
Sorcerers are far worse than wizards in PF2. There is just no reason to play one.

as pure casters, there's no doubt, but both draconic and demonic make nice gishes, maybe even better than wizard.


I think Sorcerors make respectable dedicated blasters. They can cast truestrike bungloads of times per day which is a boon to your higher level ranged attack spells and they also get damage boosting feats.

If the answer to "why do we need a caster" is "we sometimes need to kill 3 to 5 things at a time" then I would look towards sorcerors. There is also something to be said for taking fireball, magic missile, acid arrow, and lightning bolt as readied heightened spelled and then having a good murder spell for almost any situation: weaker hordes of enemies will tend to have a tough time making saves and stronger enemies will hate your acid DoT and automatic missile damage; after that, your remaining spells known can all go towards generally useful problem solving spells.


Excaliburproxy wrote:
If the answer to "why do we need a caster" is "we sometimes need to kill 3 to 5 things at a time" then I would look towards sorcerors.

Even then I'm not sure I agree. At least, not presently. When we get to part 4 and I get to level up my blaster sorcerer that might change, but chapter 1 I may as well not have shown up for all the good I did (I did 11 damage in the entire adventure).

Sure, there are some decent spells and some of them are AOE and can be used decently well and done a lot by a sorcerer...

...I'm just not sure that that is the right answer to "how to kill 3 to 5 things at a time."

(My divine sorc had the opportunity at the end of ch 2 and could have done 1d8+4 to four things, which was "about 48 damage" but I thought they'd live longer than a round and I could AOE for healing AND damage, but no, the barbarian crit one the druid crit the other and the fire sorcerer crit the third (doing 42, 48, and 38 damage respectively)).


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
ForeverJune wrote:


One thing that bothers me that has been barely mentioned about the sorcerer is having to make daily choices, it feels wrong. IMO the sorcerer shouldn't have to make daily choices, they make the class feel more like a learned wizard and less like an innate spellcaster.

Spontaneous Heightening.- There's two possibilities, either they are fixed at each level up as some sort of signature spells -and maybe add one more if making them static proves to be too limited-, or keep them malleable, but instead of playing pretend wizard every morning, you get to assign them and shift them on the fly with one or two actions.

I think that the limit is necessary to balance the Sorcerer against the wizard. I'd suggest to limit Spontaneous Heightening to two spells each day which you can assign spontaneously and you would need keep those spells until the next time you rest.

You wouldn't be able to change the spells after you have committed for the day. I think that would be more flexible and feel more "sorcerish".


Ragwulf wrote:

I think that the limit is necessary to balance the Sorcerer against the wizard. I'd suggest to limit Spontaneous Heightening to two spells each day which you can assign spontaneously and you would need keep those spells until the next time you rest.

You wouldn't be able to change the spells after you have committed for the day. I think that would be more flexible and feel more "sorcerish".

You're suggesting the exact rules that already exist.


Draco18s wrote:
Excaliburproxy wrote:
If the answer to "why do we need a caster" is "we sometimes need to kill 3 to 5 things at a time" then I would look towards sorcerors.

Even then I'm not sure I agree. At least, not presently. When we get to part 4 and I get to level up my blaster sorcerer that might change, but chapter 1 I may as well not have shown up for all the good I did (I did 11 damage in the entire adventure).

Sure, there are some decent spells and some of them are AOE and can be used decently well and done a lot by a sorcerer...

...I'm just not sure that that is the right answer to "how to kill 3 to 5 things at a time."

(My divine sorc had the opportunity at the end of ch 2 and could have done 1d8+4 to four things, which was "about 48 damage" but I thought they'd live longer than a round and I could AOE for healing AND damage, but no, the barbarian crit one the druid crit the other and the fire sorcerer crit the third (doing 42, 48, and 38 damage respectively)).

At low levels, there really aren’t a lot of blasts. That is true. Really, all you have is burning hands which you’ll maybe want to combine with dangerous sorcery and/or widen.

I was mostly talking about levels 7 onwards.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Draco18s wrote:
Ragwulf wrote:

I think that the limit is necessary to balance the Sorcerer against the wizard. I'd suggest to limit Spontaneous Heightening to two spells each day which you can assign spontaneously and you would need keep those spells until the next time you rest.

You wouldn't be able to change the spells after you have committed for the day. I think that would be more flexible and feel more "sorcerish".

You're suggesting the exact rules that already exist.

nah, if i understood him correctly, he means that your 2 spontaneous heightening slots are "open" until you use a heightened spell. And that locks the spell for the day.

The normal rules require you to pick up your 2 spontaneous spells at daily preparations.

His rule will indeed leave quite a bit of freedom to what you'll heighten compared to the existing rule


shroudb wrote:
nah, if i understood him correctly, he means that your 2 spontaneous heightening slots are "open" until you use a heightened spell. And that locks the spell for the day.

Gotcha.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

@Foreverjune: I get what you are saying. Personally I tend to suffer from decision paralysis in terms of character building. Building a character in PF1 for me would be a week long experience as I would put together half a dozen half formed ideas, and then refine over and over until I locked down the perfect character to fill the party niche, have a couple cool abilities I would find fun to use, and flesh out how he would go about most combats. For me the sorcerers and oracles were amazing spell casting classes because almost all of the abilities were set while leveling up. That way character building could stay as character building and game play could stay as game play. If you prefer more day to day decisions you had the choice of playing wizards or clerics. In exchange for less spell tracking per day I was fine giving up a little bit of power (despite personal preference I do believe wizards were often better than sorcerers powerwise).

That being said, a lot of sorcerer players in PF1 felt punished for wanting to play sorcerers. These rules are there to help add a little flexibility and bring sorcerers more in line with wizard versatility. They did so by making the sorcerers feel more wizardly. Does it feel a bit odd? Yes most certainly. Do I understand why they did it? Absolutely.


Use Headbutt!! wrote:
That being said, a lot of sorcerer players in PF1 felt punished for wanting to play sorcerers. These rules are there to help add a little flexibility and bring sorcerers more in line with wizard versatility. They did so by making the sorcerers feel more wizardly. Does it feel a bit odd? Yes most certainly. Do I understand why they did it? Absolutely.

Wizard versatility?

As a sorcerer, I can cast any spell I know on the fly, without having prepared it beforehand. Can a wizard do that? Why would I want to have to prepare beforehand? The whole point of playing a sorcerer is that he is more versatile than a wizard!

Silver Crusade

Gavmania, I agree in the versatility as a strength, but in both PF1 and PF2 the Sorcerer needs some work.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Gavmania wrote:
Use Headbutt!! wrote:
That being said, a lot of sorcerer players in PF1 felt punished for wanting to play sorcerers. These rules are there to help add a little flexibility and bring sorcerers more in line with wizard versatility. They did so by making the sorcerers feel more wizardly. Does it feel a bit odd? Yes most certainly. Do I understand why they did it? Absolutely.

Wizard versatility?

As a sorcerer, I can cast any spell I know on the fly, without having prepared it beforehand. Can a wizard do that? Why would I want to have to prepare beforehand? The whole point of playing a sorcerer is that he is more versatile than a wizard!

Hmm I feel like my point was not conveyed adequately. When dropped into a situation with no previous context the sorcerer will have more spell options available and thus be a lot more flexible. That is a play style I absolutely loved which is why I always preferred sorcerers and oracles to wizards and clerics. In exchange, wizards got higher level spells 1 level early, could metamagic with the normal spell casting actions rather than full round, had the similar total number of spells available per day with school dedication, had a ton more skills, and with 10min of study could swap out spells known. Do you not feel like those punish the sorcerer? When a situation was not an immediate threat (i.e. divinations the morning of, players planning an assault/ambush, coming across a barricade) the wizard was the one with more flexibility because he had nearly unlimited spells "known" (depends on GP expenditure) and could tailor spells accordingly. If a sorcerer and a wizard come across a locked door and the sorcerer knows "knock" then the sorcerer is more likely to be able to settle the situation right then and there (immediate flexibility sorc>wiz). If the sorcerer does not know "knock" than he has to retrain a spell or gain a level where as the wizard has to look at his books for 10min (prep flexibility wiz>>>sorc). These new rules help mitigate that. The sorcerer being able to say at the start of the day that he preps x, y, and z is a very wizardly thing to do which is why it rubs PF1 players wrong, but it fixes the sorcerer's inability to solve certain challenges without MASSIVE time investment which is very much a good thing. Is it still weaker than a wizard? yes, but now for different reasons.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

See, the flexibility of the sorcerer that I like was that I could set up an "auto-sorc" script something like this in my head:

> Can I set it on fire? Scorching Ray
> Else: can I damage it at all? Magic Missile
> Else: can it hurt me? Resist Energy
> Else: Did I take a misc utility that solves this? Use that
> Else: run away

I never had to worry about whether or not I'd already used that spell already today. I can't solve every problem, but I can be set up to deal with some problems and do so multiple times every day.


4 people marked this as a favorite.

One trait that was indispensible to me when I played Oracles or Sorcerers was the human alternate race trait that let you pick extra spells known. It was so good for spontaneous casters that I picked it almost every single level. Which told me that it was TOO good... :) That said, I'm still in disagreement with the spontaneous restrictions on PF2 Sorcerers; however, until I or another player has a chance to play one in our playtests, I'm still holding judgment.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

I do not see why the heigtening needs to be limited at all. The Limit on spells known is already a clear drawback vs. the Wizard. I don't see how it destroys the Balance of the Game if I can use my heighest spell Slot with a heightended spell from my list, given that heightened spells are generally not equivalent in power to the appropriate spell on Level.

Exo-Guardians

DerNils wrote:
I do not see why the heigtening needs to be limited at all. The Limit on spells known is already a clear drawback vs. the Wizard. I don't see how it destroys the Balance of the Game if I can use my heighest spell Slot with a heightended spell from my list, given that heightened spells are generally not equivalent in power to the appropriate spell on Level.

Here's a question, if you could have all of your spells heightened to the highest level all the time, why would you ever play Wizard, who must spend time, money, or both to achieve a similar effect?

That question is pretty much the most solid reason why I can see why they limited spell heightening, unless you give it to everyone, the classes that have it are far more powerful than those that can't. Furthermore, in that kind of situation, why would you ever learn a spell with limited heighten effects, or none at all? Under an always heightened all the time scenario I can see zero reason not to take all of the scaling spells, you save your precious spell slots and spells known by only having the best of the spells you know on hand at all times. Let's also not forget that Counterspell is a thing now, and it does heighten. With your model sorcerer is now the god of spell denial as they always have a high level counterspell on hand to shut down any and all casting.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
MER-c wrote:
DerNils wrote:
I do not see why the heigtening needs to be limited at all. The Limit on spells known is already a clear drawback vs. the Wizard. I don't see how it destroys the Balance of the Game if I can use my heighest spell Slot with a heightended spell from my list, given that heightened spells are generally not equivalent in power to the appropriate spell on Level.
Here's a question, if you could have all of your spells heightened to the highest level all the time, why would you ever play Wizard, who must spend time, money, or both to achieve a similar effect?

No he doesn't. A wizard that knows Heal* (level 1) also, already knows Heal 2, Heal 3, Heal 4, Heal 5, Heal 6, Heal 7, Heal 8, Heal 9, and Heal 10.

All he has to do is prepare it each morning into the appropriate slot.

*Note: Heal was chosen because I was too lazy to look up a better first level spell that was also short to type.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

Sorcerers are terrible compared to wizards in pf2. They are pointless.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

And, because, you know, as a Wizard I can know all of the spells, ever? Not only a limited list. That was always the difference between Sorcerer and Wizard for me - The sorcerer is more flexible during the day, the Wizard is more flexible day to day. The sorcerer is better in surprise situations, the wizard is better in planned Scenarios or when he has some time to adapt.

And I would take spells I can't heighten for the same reason I do in the current System - because some interesting spell effects simply can't be heightened.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
DerNils wrote:

And, because, you know, as a Wizard I can know all of the spells, ever? Not only a limited list. That was always the difference between Sorcerer and Wizard for me - The sorcerer is more flexible during the day, the Wizard is more flexible day to day. The sorcerer is better in surprise situations, the wizard is better in planned Scenarios or when he has some time to adapt.

And I would take spells I can't heighten for the same reason I do in the current System - because some interesting spell effects simply can't be heightened.

Sorcerer and Wizards are two sides of the same coin. As a Wizard player I was always fascinated by acquiring as many spells as I could during my adventuring career. Sorcerers seemed to me too limited in their options. There was some argument on the boards clamoring for Arcanist‘s style of casting for wizards but this severely undercuts the advantage of the sorcerer.

How to balance that? I think that Arcanist casting is viable for wizards because there are no more bonus slots. But the Sorcerer should get something too. I think that Sorcerers should have the ability to “stretch” their known spells into new forms. This ability should be limited of course.

For example a sorcerer knows the spell the 4th-Level Necromancy Spell Enervation. “Stretching” that spell could mean to be able to cast another Necromany spell of that level or of a lower level. Spell schools or spell traits could be guidelines to rule into which alternatives a spell could be stretched. This would be a powerful ability for sorcerer and this would balance Arcanist casting for wizards in my opinion.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

I agree with the OP that this version of the sorcerer is playing too much against type with daily preparation choices. Sorcerer is really about *not* preparing each day, but drawing on innate magic to power out a select group of spells because those spells resonate with their unique being, and retraining on level up is also flavorful and balanced because you gain more understanding and control over your innate well of magic energy and can train yourself to produce new spell effects with it.

I think a sorcerer is best with flexible daily slots, and spontaneous heightening should be unlimited, because really, it won't be applied to more than 3 max level spells, and all the lower level spells are designed to be way less useful unless they are heightened, so you might as well have thrown away those spell known picks.

I could even get behind giving sorcerers auto-heightening on all their spells and not just cantrips. I'm sure that they could be balanced to support that with a few minor tweaks.

That said, I really would like to see wizard/sorcerer combined into a single arcanist base class, but they said on stream that when they looked at it, they felt that it removed too much design space to not have both classes.


People who like Arcanist would like to have it Day 1, but just because Paizo might leave it for APG isn't reason to turn Wiz or Sorc into an Arcanist. When Arcanist is released you will have what you want, that doesn't justify destroying what Wiz/Sorc are.

While I sympathize with aversion to daily prep with Sorcerors, it isn't inherently different than a mundane martial who has a daily excercise establishing their focus for day. The real problem IMHO is discrepancy between daily choices (Spont Heighten) and level-fixed choices (Spells Known), but in fact that means actually using daily prep suffers efficiency penalty re: Spells Known... So if you don't like daily prep, just don't use it and you are getting pretty good deal. (I did also propose more flexible alternative not hinged on picking entire Heighten "chains" which you can search my history for if interested)


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Mark Seifter stated that originally they playtested sorcerers being able to heighten any spell known but that it led to decision paralysis (trying to find his original post on the subject). As such, since they have already "proven" that it doesn't work in concept I think their minds are already made up. I hope that they change it because I think sorcerers should be able to heighten any known spell but without a ton of support for that method on these forums I doubt it is a change we will see.

Quandary wrote:
People who like Arcanist would like to have it Day 1, but just because Paizo might leave it for APG isn't reason to turn Wiz or Sorc into an Arcanist. When Arcanist is released you will have what you want, that doesn't justify destroying what Wiz/Sorc are.

I disagree. The Arcanist in PF1 was designed as a hybrid between sorcerer and wizard. They did this by taking the best aspects of sorcerer (repeated casting of the spell known) and wizard (preping metamagic, changing spells prepared, learning more spells) casting and balancing it around the worst aspects of both classes (sorcerer slower spell progression and on the fly metamagic penalty and wizard lower default daily spells per slot). If you notice, PF2 doesn't have many of those downsides to balance around: metamagic doesn't work that way anymore, wizards and sorcerers get the same level of spells at the same time and get the same number of spells per day (sorcerers get +1/lvl from blood lines, but the default before class abilities is the same). In the current system it is impossible to release the arcanist as it was because it would completely overshadow the wizard. I am worried that there never will be a PF2 arcanist because what can you remove to go "sure the arcanist is better as spell prep but it is balanced because of _____"


Use Headbutt!! wrote:
In the current system it is impossible to release the arcanist as it was because it would completely overshadow the wizard. I am worried that there never will be a PF2 arcanist because what can you remove to go "sure the arcanist is better as spell prep but it is balanced because of _____"

That's easy. Just reduce the number of spells they can have prepared/known. And Sorcerer does have one more/level-day than Wizard, thanks to "Whenever you gain a spell from your bloodline, you also gain a spell slot of that level, which you can use to cast any sorcerer spell, not just the spell granted by your bloodline." So there's another thing to reduce.


james014Aura wrote:
That's easy. Just reduce the number of spells they can have prepared/known. And Sorcerer does have one more/level-day than Wizard, thanks to "Whenever you gain a spell from your bloodline, you also gain a spell slot of that level, which you can use to cast any sorcerer spell, not just the spell granted by your bloodline." So there's another thing to reduce.

Wizards also get 1 more per day due to their specialization, "You gain one additional spell slot for each spell level you can cast, but you may use these spell slots to prepare only spells from your arcane school."

So that pretty much cancels out.


I think Arcanist is clearly fodder for a future book, but I actually wondered why it needs to be class at all, it could be Dedication Archtype compatible with ANY Arcane Casting Class, with Arcanist stye casting mechanics worded to modify either prepared/spontaneous appropriately, as well as it's own Exploits. Thus it becomes more like Bloatmage PrC in a way. I don't know why it needs to be more than that, it just doesn't really feel like it has strongly independent identity... Which is why it's advocates seem just as happy for it to be ported over to the Wizard class itself.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Draco18s wrote:
james014Aura wrote:
That's easy. Just reduce the number of spells they can have prepared/known. And Sorcerer does have one more/level-day than Wizard, thanks to "Whenever you gain a spell from your bloodline, you also gain a spell slot of that level, which you can use to cast any sorcerer spell, not just the spell granted by your bloodline." So there's another thing to reduce.

Wizards also get 1 more per day due to their specialization, "You gain one additional spell slot for each spell level you can cast, but you may use these spell slots to prepare only spells from your arcane school."

So that pretty much cancels out.

Workaround: The Arcanist gets neither bloodline nor school... or at least, no bonus spells from them (but some feats to choose the other powers)


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

There are two aspects to the arcanist, the exploits and the daily repertoire adjustment. I would totally get behind making those things into archetypes, but I’d be more psyched to see them rolled into these two classes.

For example:

Sorcerers getting exploits because they don’t just know magic they are magic. They can have a few spells but can exploit them to gain versatility since they lost their quantity per day advantage

Wizards getting a daily customizable repertoire and slots because bad spell selection is a huge opportunity cost already. Turning a useless memorization into another casting of a useful spell seems so much better when you get fewer spells that do less in this edition.

So far so I’ve been super underwhelmed from both classes in pf1 and doubly so in the playtest. I just can’t get excited about 4 spells per level that require manual heightening to stay relevant.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Draco18s wrote:


No he doesn't. A wizard that knows Heal* (level 1) also, already knows Heal 2, Heal 3, Heal 4, Heal 5, Heal 6, Heal 7, Heal 8, Heal 9, and Heal 10.

All he has to do is prepare it each morning into the appropriate slot.

*Note: Heal was chosen because I was too lazy to look up a better first level spell that was also short to type.

Wow, I hadn't noticed that. Yeah, I'm hoping for spontaneous heightening to be.. spontaneous in the final version. Sorcerers should be able to do basically the same things with the spells they know as a wizard (or, for other bloodlines, whoever else).

I started reading this thread thinking "2x per day, heighten a spell, that spell stays heightened until your next daily preparation". After realizing the wizards heighten for free, now I'm in "just let me choose which level I'm casting it as when I cast it".


Thedukk wrote:

Wow, I hadn't noticed that. Yeah, I'm hoping for spontaneous heightening to be.. spontaneous in the final version. Sorcerers should be able to do basically the same things with the spells they know as a wizard (or, for other bloodlines, whoever else).

I started reading this thread thinking "2x per day, heighten a spell, that spell stays heightened until your next daily preparation". After realizing the wizards heighten for free, now I'm in "just let me choose which level I'm casting it as when I cast it".

My suggestion is more like "I'm fine with picking 2 each day that I can max-heighten (and don't care when it occurs, eg. your suggestion) but every other spell? Let me heighten that by +1 any time all the time.

I'm still limited by my slots, but it lets me go "oh, lightning bolt is the right spell for this situation, but it's not one of my 2 heightened spells for the day, but I want as much damage out of it as I can get" and not be forced to choose sub-optimally.


I would be interested in Marks post on decision paralysis. I can't imagine when that would apply. Either you know what spellyou want to cast, and then you probably want to heighten it as high as possible, or you don't. If you don't know what you want to cast, there is no difference between heightening or not.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

I currently play a 13th level human sorcerer. Going by the PF1 table, he has 32 spells known, not counting bloodline & alternate human trait bonus spells. I’ve honestly never been at a loss trying to pick a spell in combat - once you quickly weed out utility spells, wrong element type, inappropriate level, saving throw potential, etc., decision’s not that hard. Even with several metamagic feats, I’ve never felt bogged down by decision making. Were I to convert him to playtest rules, I would only be dealing with 20 spells known - I feel if I’m using the same decision-making criteria in combat, I can’t believe I’d be slowing the game down trying to decide which one of a handful of appropriate spells I’d like to heighten.

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
DerNils wrote:
I would be interested in Marks post on decision paralysis. I can't imagine when that would apply. Either you know what spellyou want to cast, and then you probably want to heighten it as high as possible, or you don't. If you don't know what you want to cast, there is no difference between heightening or not.

Not to mention the "paralysis" of picking your spells known. A spell you don't have is a spell never heightened. A spell never cast. What if you really need that spell? But you only get one this level and this spell is just as useful! Do I pick one that Heightens so I can use my ability with it? Do I take one my limited class feats actually work on(glad I'm arcane this time)?

Then there is picking your two free Heightened spells for the day...

And why does a bard get to Heighten more spells than someone who's magic is literally in their blood?


Only time I've ever had serious analysis paralysis is when I've been in a tough situation and not had any good options.

e.g. this situation came up in Mummy's Mask, towards the end of book 2. I was playing a summoner and my eidolon was a friggin' tank:

Range is being mobbed by weak summons, their controller is down the hall somewhere and invisible. I'm currently standing in a doorway, fighting off a Big Bad and two beefy minions and taking Attacks of Opportunity on the summons as they move past me down the hall to the ranger (but I can't get all of them) and I've already greased the hall, reducing maneuverability.

- I don't want to move out of the room because the Big Bad and Beefy Minions are giving my other party members trouble: if I leave, one of them could go down (every attack the eidolon takes is one that someone with less armor and hp takes and the eidolon has 10 foot reach, reducing minion mobility).
- I don't have any AOE damaging spells to take out the summons.
- I can't find the summoner and none of the spells I have will fix that.

So I examine the options I do have to see if one of the spells I have has a obscure or unexpected use that would aid my dilemma.

In the end I didn't have anything (or a case of too little too late) and we lost the ranger.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

It seems like overcompensating for decision paralysis would be an easy mistake to make. Some people can't handle much more than one button characters, and some people vary on how much they can handle from day to day. Giving people the option to build one button characters is great, but making a crummy option for everyone in order to accommodate someone's inability to make decisions is a poor choice.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
ErichAD wrote:
It seems like overcompensating for decision paralysis would be an easy mistake to make. Some people can't handle much more than one button characters, and some people vary on how much they can handle from day to day. Giving people the option to build one button characters is great, but making a crummy option for everyone in order to accommodate someone's inability to make decisions is a poor choice.

Bingo (bango (bongo drums)).

Community / Forums / Archive / Pathfinder / Playtests & Prerelease Discussions / Pathfinder Playtest / Player Rules / Classes / Day by day sorcerer feels off. All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.