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There is a contradiction in the new dying rules.
On page 3 of the Pathfinder Playtest Rulebook Update 1.2, under Dying it says "When you lose the dying condition, you regain consciousness, but are slowed for 1 round."
Under Administer First Aid on page 4 it says "The significant changes are that the creature remains at 0 HP (now that you can be at 0 HP and not be dying)" and then under the skill Administer First Aid it says "Success The creature at 0 Hit Points loses the dying condition (but remains unconscious), or you end the persistent bleed damage (see page 323)."
Under Other Changes on page 4, it also says "In the stabilize spell, change the description to “The soft glow of positive energy shuts death’s door. The target loses the dying condition, though it remains unconscious at 0 Hit Points.”
Since these are the two main ways of losing the dying condition other than receiving healing, do you regain consciousness or not when you lose the dying condition?
Another question I have is that when you regain consciousness, you are slowed x for one round, where x is the dying value you had when you regained consciousness. If you don't regain consciousness from Administer First Aid or Stabilize, what if I apply either of those to a dying character to remove the dying condition, and then with my next action heal them. Since they lost the dying condition before they regained conscousness, are they not slowed for one round?
If you are stabilized by either the Administer First Aid or the Stabilize spell, you lose the dying condition, but remain unconscious at 0hp.
If you gain hp through healing magic, a potion, a Battle Medic or some other way, you lose the dying condition and gain consciousness, but are slowed.
Yes, if someone is unconscious, at 0 hp, not dying, and receives hp healing they gain consciousness and are not slowed.
The first Quote of your misses the sentence right before it: Dying wrote: You lose the dying condition upon returning to 1 or more Hit Points. When you lose the dying condition, you regain consciousness, but are slowed for 1 round. The text in Dying is the general rule, the rules in "Administer First Aid" and "Stabilize" are specific rules that are the exceptions.
Franz Lunzer wrote: If you are stabilized by either the Administer First Aid or the Stabilize spell, you lose the dying condition, but remain unconscious at 0hp.
If you gain hp through healing magic, a potion, a Battle Medic or some other way, you lose the dying condition and gain consciousness, but are slowed.
Yes, if someone is unconscious, at 0 hp, not dying, and receives hp healing they gain consciousness and are not slowed.
The first Quote of your misses the sentence right before it: Dying wrote: You lose the dying condition upon returning to 1 or more Hit Points. When you lose the dying condition, you regain consciousness, but are slowed for 1 round. The text in Dying is the general rule, the rules in "Administer First Aid" and "Stabilize" are specific rules that are the exceptions.
If losing the dying condition by itself is not sufficient to become conscious, those two sentences need to be combined into one to make that clear. Something like "Upon returning to 1 or more Hit Points, you lose the dying condition and regain consciousness, but are slowed for 1 round." The way it's phrased now makes it sound like losing the dying condition is the reason for regaining consciousness, but it's not. It's regaining the Hit Points.
Yeah, it needs to be rewritten. Right now it's strange because it's an artifact from the way dying worked before the updates.
danedori wrote: If losing the dying condition by itself is not sufficient to become conscious, those two sentences need to be combined into one to make that clear. Something like "Upon returning to 1 or more Hit Points, you lose the dying condition and regain consciousness, but are slowed for 1 round." The way it's phrased now makes it sound like losing the dying condition is the reason for regaining consciousness, but it's not. It's regaining the Hit Points. We had an entire thread on this. As Franz said, its still unclear and could be worded better.
My interpretation is to take the one sentence ("When you lose the dying condition, you regain consciousness, but are slowed for 1 round.") and interpret it as a subclause to the two sentences around it. e.g:
"You lose the dying condition upon returning to 1 or more Hit Points. When you lose the dying condition this way, you regain consciousness, but are slowed for 1 round. [Sentence about how bad the slow is]."
Taken out of context its contradictory. Which is the problem: its out of context. What is that context? Getting healed above 0. Ergo its not meant to stand on its own.
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