Courtly Graces Does Nothing for Nobles


Ancestries & Backgrounds


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I can't be the only one to have noticed, but if you take the Noble background you get Courtly Graces, and training in Nobility Lore.

Courtly Graces lets you sub Society in place of Nobility Lore for recalling knowledge and a few other things. Except both Lore and Society are Int checks, so since you get the free Lore training, your modifier will be the same.

So the benefit of the feat is nothing when you first get it, or worse if you don't invest in Society. (This was even worse before with Signature Skills, since if your class didn't have Society on its list it meant that you also had a cap of expert that Lore didn't have.) The only advantage I can see is if you're a Rogue, you can get Connections at level 2. Everyone else, skill advancement isn't until level 3, with first opportunity for an expert feat at 4. So if anyone else really wanted Connections (or just Courtly Grace without also having Nobility Lore) they'd be better with taking Courtly Graces at 2, and picking a different background with a different feat and Lore.

TLDR; If you want Courtly Graces, you don't want Nobility Lore, because having one makes the other redundant for most characters.


Good point should give a +2 bonus when dealing with nobles or some such. Comparable to the crafting specialization feats maybe.


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Many backgrounds have similar issues. Using the Acolyte background for a Cleric is a good example. You're trained in religion and have a high wisdom modifier; when would you ever make a deity lore check instead? Noble is the most explicit, but there are plenty of flavorful class/background combos that leave you with a completely useless lore.


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Dasrak wrote:
Noble is the most explicit, but there are plenty of flavorful class/background combos that leave you with a completely useless lore.

My bit is it isn't even class+background. Noble on its own conflicts with itself.

And my advantage I pointed out for early Connections on the Rogue, I realized was also false. Since Rogues get a skill feat at 1, you could just take Courtly Graces with that and then Connections at 2 without ever touching the Nobke background or Nobility Lore, and have a feat from a different background.


I reckon it should work both ways, let you pick feats using Nobility Lore as requirement.


Ediwir wrote:
I reckon it should work both ways, let you pick feats using Nobility Lore as requirement.

No feats use Lore as a requirement, except Pirate Archetype.

You could make the argument that Assurance does, but we both know that that's a weak argument.

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