Spell Attacks


General Discussion


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

For all spellcasting classes, I would really like to see Spell Attacks described under their respective Spellcasting section.

For example, the Cleric's Divine Spellcasting section on pg 69 - the last paragraph talks about spell rolls and spell DC's using your Wisdom modifier. This strongly suggests that Wisdom is something you use with EVERY spell. Which is simply not the case as spell attacks require Str or Dex modifiers instead of your Wisdom. I particularly believe that the use of spell rolls in this paragraph is strongly misleading.

Without any mention of Spell Attacks, I feel this is something that new players, as well as players familiar with other systems, will easily misinterpret or be completely unaware of. This leads to playing the game wrong or a "gotcha" moment where the DM says "that is a spell attack and you need to use your Str/Dex bonus" causing the player to either suffer the consequences of being unaware or holding the game up while they make a few quick adjustments. Neither of these are good for the end user experience.

Lastly, I will add that new players are not likely to pick up the significance of the Attack definition on pg 9 (or any other page it may exist) or even see it when making their first character. Spell Attacks really should be in the spellcasting section of the class.


I would also like to see this clarified.

I would like to know where you see that a spell attack requires Str or Dex modifers. Neither page 9 nor 291 state that you have to use str or dex for an attack roll.

I have played the previous addition for several years and think that they may have changed it from how it was to this new version using your "Spell Roll" to determine if you hit.

They have done other minor changes and this may be one of them.

My reasoning being that they do not define a "touch attack" as it was clearly defined in PF1.


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Spell attacks should go off your spellcasting attribute like in D&D5E. Why do casters have to be M.A.D. ?


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Minos Judge wrote:

I would also like to see this clarified.

I would like to know where you see that a spell attack requires Str or Dex modifers. Neither page 9 nor 291 state that you have to use str or dex for an attack roll.

I have played the previous addition for several years and think that they may have changed it from how it was to this new version using your "Spell Roll" to determine if you hit.

They have done other minor changes and this may be one of them.

My reasoning being that they do not define a "touch attack" as it was clearly defined in PF1.

I don't have my books with me atm, but if you read the section on Spell Attacks, and then read the errata rules update 1.1 it states that spell attacks are a finesse attack. You use Str or Dex modifier to make the attack. It wasn't until the errata that I realized that you don't use your key ability when making attacks.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Arrow17 wrote:
Spell attacks should go off your spellcasting attribute like in D&D5E. Why do casters have to be M.A.D. ?

I *think* because of the TAC (Touch AC) mechanic. TAC seems to exist to allow caster to use a secondary attribute that they are not as good in to still be successful in attacks as TAC seems to be about 1-4 points lower than AC which then gives the caster the illusion they are attacking with a key ability.

The problem is, if TAC is removed from the game, a key design aspect of making armor different is gone. So either armor needs a redesign with the removal of TAC or TAC needs to be kept to help differentiate armor.


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Strachan Fireblade wrote:
Arrow17 wrote:
Spell attacks should go off your spellcasting attribute like in D&D5E. Why do casters have to be M.A.D. ?

I *think* because of the TAC (Touch AC) mechanic. TAC seems to exist to allow caster to use a secondary attribute that they are not as good in to still be successful in attacks as TAC seems to be about 1-4 points lower than AC which then gives the caster the illusion they are attacking with a key ability.

The problem is, if TAC is removed from the game, a key design aspect of making armor different is gone. So either armor needs a redesign with the removal of TAC or TAC needs to be kept to help differentiate armor.

Just strip out the TAC part of Armour entires, and spell attacks use your spellcasting mod, that should be fine.


Spell Attack = d20 + Level + Proficiency + spellcasting ability score modifier.

Spell DC = 10 + Level + Proficiency + spellcasting ability score modifier


I think spell attacks should still go off STR/DEX but I agree that the rules should be much clearer on this.

Rays, bolts, shocks, etc are not heat seeking unless they are Magic Missile. You still need to physically aim.


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I can kind of see dex, but I am not sure how str works to aim spells, unless it is like DBZ and the wizard is holding up a big ball of energy ...

On the other hand, anything that makes an orc wizard better is good for me.


Data Lore wrote:

I think spell attacks should still go off STR/DEX but I agree that the rules should be much clearer on this.

Rays, bolts, shocks, etc are not heat seeking unless they are Magic Missile. You still need to physically aim.

Magic missile is just unerring, I don't think casting a fire bolt is the same as throwing a spear or dart.


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They did address this in the FAQ. I am sorry that I missed it the first time I checked it out.

Page 197—In the Spell chapter, in Spell Attacks, in the second paragraph, at the beginning of the fifth sentence, add “You add your Strength or Dexterity modifier to these attacks as normal, and”

I still believe that they should use the spell casting mod. I like Vic's idea of getting rid of TAC at that time.

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