| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Yes, this is late because we've been a PbP game (though not hosted here since the site was too unstable when we started). I will hopefully get the rest summarized and posted later this week.
I am sure we made some mistakes in all of this.
The players:
Amarcus - half-elf Varisian ranger (no animal companion)
Lira - halfling rogue
Samin - human Kelishite cleric of Sarenrae
Sefora - human Chelaxian wizard (conjuration)
Day 1
Room A1
The party stands at the entrance to the cistern room. It’s completely dark inside, so Sefora casts Light on a stone and tosses it inside to one of the squares not covered in water. The GM has her make a ranged attack vs DC 10 and she rolls a d20+5 ⇒ (11)+5 = 16. The rocks lands in the right spot and fills the room with light.
The party is unaware of the sewer ooze hiding in the refuse, but as the players are being cautious the GM has everyone roll for initiative (Sefora d20+2 ⇒ (13)+2 = 15, Amarcus d20+3 ⇒ (11)+3 = 14, Lira d20+3 ⇒ (16)+3 = 19, Samin d20+5 ⇒ (18)+5 = 23) using the Stealth modifier for the ooze d20+6 ⇒ (10)+6 = 16.
Round 1
Samin is cautious and starts with a Seek action to the left d20+5 ⇒ (10)+5 = 15 and right d20+5 ⇒ (2)+5 = 7, but the secret roll made by the GM for the ooze hiding on his left is not high enough to beat the ooze’s Stealth DC of 10+6 = 16. Confident that the room is empty, Samin uses his third action to step into the room, moving 20 ft straight ahead.
Lira is equally cautious, but realizes just seeking straight ahead is sufficient. The GM rolls d20+3 ⇒ (12)+3 = 15 which is also too low, and she follows Samin in.
The ooze is next, and is lying in wait until something gets within 10 feet of it. Samin was the first to do that, and the closest, so the ooze moves 5 feet to engage then sends a pseudopod towards the cleric, who is caught flat-footed d20+7 ⇒ (8)+7 = 15 and takes 1d6+1 ⇒ (4)+1 = 5 points of bludgeoning and d4 ⇒ (2) = 2 pts of acid damage. It follows with a second strike d20+7-5 ⇒ (17)+7-5 = 19 which deals an additional d6+1 ⇒ (6)+1 = 7 points of bludgeoning and d4 ⇒ (1) = 1 point of acid damage, leaving him with 2 hp remaining.
Sefora sees her friend come under a withering attack by some sort of slimy substance and attempts an untrained Recall Knowledge action using the Nature skill, but her roll of d20 ⇒ (2) = 2 is not even close so she goes with Ray of Frost, figuring ooze and cold don’t get along. Her roll of d20+5 ⇒ (15)+5 = 20 is high enough above the ooze’s TAC that she scores a critical hit, but the ooze is immune to critical hits. A frustrated Sefora rolls and deals the max d8 ⇒ (8) = 8 points of cold damage.
Amarcus also makes a Recall Knowledge check vs Nature d20+3 ⇒ (16)+3 = 19 and correctly identifies the creature as a sewer ooze. The GM rules that the most obvious piece of information is around its immunities: it’s immune to acid damage. Amarcus relays this unhelpful information to his companions, then moves into position with his sword to make two attacks, d20+4 ⇒ (8)+4 = 12 and d20-1 ⇒ (15)-1 = 14. Both hit and he deals d8+3 ⇒ (3)+3 = 6 and d8 ⇒ (7)+3 = 10 points of damage.
Round 2
His hit points dangerously close to zero, Samin channels energy and boosts it with Healer’s Blessing power to Heal himself d8+4+2 ⇒ (7)+4+2 = 13 points. He then makes two attacks with his scimitar, a forceful weapon, d20+2 ⇒ (12)+2 = 14 and d20-3+1 ⇒ (6)-3+1 = 4. Only the first attack lands, slashing the ooze for d6+1 ⇒ (3)+1 = 4 points of damage.
Lira has a rapier in one hand but has to step in order to attack so she chooses the to just use the rapier instead of drawing her dagger (which would have a lower MAP) since she wants more than one attack. The first swing d20+5 ⇒ (16)+5 = 21 lands and deals d6+4 ⇒ (5)+4 = 9 points of damage, as does the second d20 ⇒ (18) = 18, landing the killing blow of d6+4 ⇒ (2)+4 = 6 points of damage. The ooze collapses into a gooey puddle.
Room A2
Stinging from their first encounter, the party picks up the glowing rock and advances cautiously around the bend in the tunnel. Samin casts Light on a second rock, knowing from Talga’s map that the room up ahead is fairly large, and passes it to Lira.
The party is unaware of the goblins at the north end of the room. And though the goblins are focused on their task, they notice light spilling into the room and growing brighter as the party approaches. At this point, the GM has Lira, who is in the lead, make a Perception check d20+3 ⇒ (4)+3 = 7 vs a high Level 1 DC of 14, but she rolls low and doesn’t hear the hushed chatter of the goblins as they stop what they are doing to prepare for possible intruders.
Once again, the party opts for the “toss the stone into the room” technique. Lira doesn’t try for a specific square, just “ahead”, and the GM places it in the middle of the room. While this happens, the Goblins start moving closer to the tunnel entrance, but they aren’t trying to be quiet about it so the GM has everyone roll for initiative (Goblin1 d20+1 ⇒ (9)+1 = 10, G2 d20+1 ⇒ (9)+1 = 10, G3 d20+1 ⇒ (13)+1 = 14, G4 d20+1 ⇒ (19)+1 = 20) (Lira d20+3 ⇒ (15)+3 = 18, Amarcus d20+3 ⇒ (16)+3 = 19, Samin d20+5 ⇒ (12)+5 = 17, Sefora d20+2 ⇒ (2)+2 = 4)
Round 1
Goblin4 grabs his dogslicer and moves along the wall towards the source of the light.
Amarcus can hear the sounds of motion in the room, but doesn’t see directly ahead. He strides into the room, ahead of Lira, and spots the first goblin along the walls. The goblin sees an obvious intruder and, as a free action, screams a comical, goblin battlecry. Amarcus steps towards it and, sword in hand, slices at the goblin d20+4 ⇒ (15)+4 = 19 and connects, dealing d8+3 ⇒ (4)+3 = 7 points of damage that permanently silence it.
Hearing the scream of the goblin cut short, Lira runs into the room and, to her frustration, discovers the glowing rock was tossed in between two pillars, limiting its light. She takes an action to kick it closer to the east wall.
Samin follows and stops at the entrance. With no obvious targets, he simply waits.
Goblin3 follows G4’s lead. He draws his dogslicer, and screams his battlecry as he rushes towards Amarcus. He runs out of movement and actions while only 5 ft away.
Not being the most tactically advanced creatures, Goblin1 does the same, only he was a bit closer and is able to reach the ranger. Still, he, too, is out of actions.
Goblin2 is no more sophisticated than her kin, and follows Goblin1.
Sefora is not eager to dash into the room with the party all bunched up along the entrance and the chorus of goblin screams approaching, so she advances to the end of the tunnel, just outside the room, and tosses her glowing rock to the far wall. This is a specific placement, so the GM has her roll d20+5 ⇒ (16)+5 = 21 vs DC 10 which she easily makes. Light is now spilling along the east and west walls.
Round 2
Amarcus swings at Goblin1, who is right next to him d20+4 ⇒ (10)+4 = 14 and one-shots it with d8+4 ⇒ (3)+4 = 7 points of damage. He steps forward and engages Goblin3 d20 ⇒ (3) = 3 but only catches air.
After the experience in the cistern, Lira has both of her weapons drawn. She moves around the pillar on the far side and encounters Goblin2 as she circles it. Her rapier d20+5 ⇒ (12)+5 = 17 slices into the goblin d6+4 ⇒ (2)+4 = 6 and she, too, drops from one blow. With her final action she moves to flank the remaining Goblin.
Samin sees the Goblins drop quickly, and moves in to finish the last one off but both attacks with his scimitar d20+2 ⇒ (8)+2 = 10, d20-3 ⇒ (13)-3 = 10 fail to connect.
Goblin3 is outnumbered and surrounded, but being a goblin, this means nothing to him, and he’s more afraid of Drakus, anyway. He screams again, and launches a diminutive assault on Amarcus. His dogslicer slices three times at the ranger d20+6 ⇒ (10)+6 = 16, d20+1 ⇒ (4)+1 = 5, d20-4 ⇒ (13)-4 = 9 but only the first one finds its target to deal d6 ⇒ (2) = 2 points of damage.
The GM rules that the goblin will almost certainly go down with the entire party up next, and in the interest of time declares combat over, and the last goblin dead.
The party collects the dogslicers, then spends a few minutes searching the burial niches. Unconcerned that this is uncomfortably close to grave robbing, Lira tries to aid d20+3 ⇒ (4)+3 = 7 Samin in his search but doesn’t make the DC. Samin is able to turn up d20+5 ⇒ (6)+5 = 11 a silver ring and a vial filled with liquid that glows magic. Not willing to take an hour to identify it, they put it in a bag and move on.
Room A3
Lira squeezes through the southern most tunnel and enters a small chamber filled with rubble. She stops short of the first square with difficult terrain for a Perception check d20+3 ⇒ (1)+3 = 4 fails spectacularly, and she calls the others in while stepping into the first square. The GM rolls for initiative as six centipedes scurry from the rubble to attack (C1 d20+6 ⇒ (11)+6 = 17, C2 d20+6 ⇒ (7)+6 = 13, C3 d20+6 ⇒ (4)+6 = 10, C4 d20+6 ⇒ (7)+6 = 13, C5 d20+6 ⇒ (4)+6 = 10, C6 d20+6 ⇒ (1)+6 = 7) (Lira d20+3 ⇒ (5)+3 = 8, Amarcus d20+3 ⇒ (11)+3 = 14, Samin d20+5 ⇒ (19)+5 = 24, Sefora d20+2 ⇒ (20)+2 = 22).
Round 1
Lira takes a free action to scream in a panic as centipedes swarm towards her. Amarcus is the first to act, and rushes into the cavern and is close enough to attack C1. He swings his sword d20+4 ⇒ (13)+4 = 17 and deals just enough damage d8+4 ⇒ (4)+4 = 8 to put the first vermin down.
Samin is next, and charges after him. A traffic jam has formed at the entrance, but he’ able to move into a square of difficult terrain to attack C2 with his scimitar d20+2 ⇒ (10)+2 = 12 but comes up short.
Sefora follows and is unable to enter the cavern. Quickly assessing the situation, she opts for a Ray of Frost against C2. Her allies are screening it, but her roll of d20+5-1 ⇒ (14)+5-1 = 18 is good enough and it drops with d8+4 ⇒ (7)+4 = 11 points of cold damage.
Centipedes 3, 4, and 5 all rush forward, each one attacking a different party member. C3 bites at Samin d20+6 ⇒ (16)+6 = 22 and sinks his mandibles in for d4-1 ⇒ (1)-1 = 0 ⇒ 1 point of damage. The second bite d20+1 ⇒ (1)+1 = 2 is not even close. Samin feels the venom enter his system as he fails his Fort save d20+3 ⇒ (3)+3 = 6 by a wide margin, takes an additional d6 ⇒ (4) = 4 points of poison damage and is now flat-footed.
C4 bites twice at Lira, who is still flat-footed. The first one misses d20+6 ⇒ (2)+6 = 8 but the second one penetrates for d4-1 ⇒ (3)-1 = 2 points of damage. The halfing also fails her Fort save d20+1 ⇒ (4)+1 = 5, taking d6 ⇒ (3) = 3 points of poison damage and remaining flat-footed.
C5 bites at Amarcus, the first one penetrating his armor d20+6 ⇒ (12)+6 = 18 to deal max damage d4-1 ⇒ (4)-1 = 3 and the second a natural 1 d20+1 ⇒ (1)+1 = 2. Amarcus makes d20+4 ⇒ (13)+4 = 17 his Fort saving throw, avoiding getting venom in his system.
Lira is now up, and rolls her next Fort save d20+1 ⇒ (4)+1 = 5 against the poison coursing through her body, advancing to Stage 2. She takes another d6 ⇒ (5) = 5 points of poison damage, and is now flat-footed and sluggish 2. Dangerously low on health, and with a fourth centipede still waiting behind the front line, she tries a desperate gambit: she swings her rapier at the centipede in front of her d20+3 ⇒ (15)+3 = 18 and strikes a blow for max damage d6+4 ⇒ (6)+4 = 10, cutting the centipede in half. Her second attack is with her light mace, an agile weapon, directed at C3 in front of Samin d20-1 ⇒ (20)-1 = 19 and scores a critical hit on a natural 20. The centipede is not mechanically able to withstand her minimum damage, but she rolls anyway because she’s pissed, smashing it with 2d4+8 ⇒ (5)+8 = 13 points. With her last remaining action, she steps back behind Sefora and retreats into the tunnel.
Centipede 6 surges forward, now seeing three possible targets. It opts for Samin, who seems weaker, and bites twice d20+6 ⇒ (13)+6 = 19, d20+1 ⇒ (5)+1 = 6. The first one penetrates, and Samin takes d4-1 ⇒ (2)-1 = 1 minimum damage, fails his Fort save d20+3 ⇒ (8)+3 = 11 and his hit again with centipede venom for d6 ⇒ (2) = 2 points of damage and immediately advancing him to Stage 2, rendering him sluggish 2.
Round 2
Amarcus swings his sword at C5 and connects d20+4 ⇒ (14)+4 = 18, and his d8+3 ⇒ (7)+3 = 10 points of damage cut it in half. He steps five feet next to Samin, who appears to be in serious trouble. He swings at the last centipede, C6, d20-1 ⇒ (10)-1 = 9 but misses.
Samin is in trouble. He rolls his next Fort save d20+3 ⇒ (4)+3 = 7 and fails again, taking another d6 ⇒ (3) = 3 points of poison damage. He knows Lira is in danger, too, so he moves back into the tunnel, and uses his remaining two actions to heal both Lira d8+4 ⇒ (1)+4 = 5 and himself d8+4 ⇒ (5)+4 = 9
Sefora moves in and fires another Ray of Frost d20+5 ⇒ (19)+5 = 24 scoring a critical hit for 2d8 ⇒ (6) = 6 just enough damage to kill it.
The encounter is over, but Lira and Samin are both still poisoned.
Round 3
Lira misses her d20+1 ⇒ (8)+1 = 9 Fort save and takes 2 points of damage.
Samin makes his d20+3 ⇒ (19)+3 = 22 Fort save, advancing to Stage 1 but still taking 3 points of damage. He uses the 3-action version of Heal to heal them both for d8+4 ⇒ (5)+4 = 9 points, restoring them both to full health.
Round 4
Lira fails d20+1 ⇒ (6)+1 = 7 her Fort save yet again and takes another 3 points of damage.
Samin d20+3 ⇒ (14)+3 = 17 makes his and the affliction ends.
Round 5
Lira finally not only succeeds d20+3 ⇒ (19)+3 = 22, but critically so, and the affliction ends.
The GM, impressed with Lira’s desperate move which turned the tide, all while barely clinging to life herself, awards her 1 Hero Point.
The party briefly discusses whether or not they should call it a day, but since everyone but Lira is at full health and Samin still has two channels left, they decide to press on for now.
Room A4
Lira is not up for taking the lead, so Amarcus scouts the next side passage which Talga said is “where Drakus makes examples of us”. It emerges into a room filled with tiny skeletal remains and four goblin bodies that were obviously more recent casualties. His Perception check d20+3 ⇒ (19)+3 = 22 yields nothing else hiding, but still cautious from the last battle, he waits for Samin to join him before they step into the room together, but nothing emerges to attack. Samin examines the bodies d20+5 ⇒ (11)+5 = 16 and note there’s a finger-size hole in the neck of each. Not being terribly familiar with the details of vampires, Samin remains suspicious of Talga’s claims but based on what he says he can’t rule them out, either.
A search of the room turns up nothing else of interest, so they leave and examine the last side passage along the far wall.
Room A5
Amarcus again enters the final chamber cautiously, and stops when he sees the 3-foot tall fungus growing in the middle of the room. Talge described this as containing as “a pretty plant”, but his Nature check d20+2 ⇒ (12)+2 = 14 identifies it as a very dangerous Mindfog Fungus. He quickly exits and tells the rest of the party what he found. He says that they could easily slice it up or even burn it, but doing so would cause spurs to burst out into the room. As it’s not a threat where it is and can’t exactly follow them around, they wisely decide to leave it alone.
Room A6
The party heads for the last exit off the main hall, passing what appears to be a formless statue made out of refuse (to which Lira says, “Goblin art!”) in the northern end of the chamber. The long hallway leads to a large, rectangular chamber. What Talga described as a stone lady crying into a pool turns out to be an accurate description. An enormous stone face on the far end of the wall serves as a fountain, water coming out her eyes and pouring into a reservoir that feeds pool of water. The water is filthy black with a putrid odor.
Samin notices the water coming from the stone statue appears to be clear, which makes the party suspicious of the reservoir and pool. He decides to search the pool d20+5 ⇒ (16)+5 = 21, and turns up a small idol to Lamashtu. As he lifts it from the water in his off hand, the idol cracks open and two tiny, demonic creatures emerge from it like hatchlings. The GM has everyone roll for initiative (Q1 d20+4 ⇒ (16)+4 = 20, Q2 d20+4 ⇒ (14)+4 = 18) (Amarcus d20+3 ⇒ (2)+3 = 5, Lira d20+3 ⇒ (6)+3 = 9, Samin d20+5 ⇒ (18)+5 = 23, Sefora d20+2 ⇒ (10)+2 = 12).
Round 1
Reacting quickly, Samin lets loose with Burning Hands, dousing the two quasits in flames for 10 points of fire damage. Quasit 1 makes its reflex save d20+5 ⇒ (13)+5 = 18 and suffers only half, but Quaist 2 2d6 ⇒ (10) = 10 takes the brunt of it.
Enraged, Quasit 1 slashes furiously at Samin three times d20+7 ⇒ (8)+7 = 15, d20+3 ⇒ (1)+3 = 4, d20-1 ⇒ (1)-1 = 0 and connects once for d4-1 ⇒ (3)-1 = 2 points of damage. Samin finds him making yet another Fort save against venom d20+3 ⇒ (6)+3 = 9 and fails, taking d4 ⇒ (2) = 2 points of poison damage and advancing to Stage 1.
Quasit 2 slashes at Samin as well d20+7 ⇒ (15)+7 = 22, dealing minimum damage d4-1 ⇒ (1)-1 = 0 ⇒ 1 and forcing another save. Samin fails again, and advances to Stage 2, taking another d4 ⇒ (2) = 2 points of poison damage. It follows up with a casting of Fear, but Samin’s For save is d20+6 ⇒ (20)+6 = 26 a critical success, and he’s unaffected.
With the tiny demons in Samin’s space, Sefora is once again denied any sort of area of effect spell, and instead returns to Ray of Frost. She aims for Q2, which is more heavily singed, and d20+5 ⇒ (16)+5 = 21 scores a hit for d8+4 ⇒ (2)+4 = 6 points of damage.
Lira runs up to Samin and brings her rapier down on Quasit 2 d20+3 ⇒ (2)+3 = 5 but misses. Her second attack with her mace connects, however, for d4+4 ⇒ (3)+4 = 7 points, leaving the Quasit just barely clinging to life.
Amarcus also closes with Samin to engage the Quasits, but can’t get there in time for more than a single attack. He aims for Quasit 2 as well, and the attack lands d20+4 ⇒ (19)+4 = 23. The Quasit was at 1 hp so no roll was needed to cut it in half.
Round 2
Samin makes his Fort save d20+3 ⇒ (13)+3 = 16 and moves back to Stage 1, taking another d4 ⇒ (4) = 4 points of poison damage. Now in serious trouble, Samin first takes an action to heal himself for d8+4 ⇒ (6)+4 = 10 points, then slashes at the remaining Quasit. His first attack lands d20+2 ⇒ (14)+2 = 16 and deals d6+1 ⇒ (4)+1 = 5 points of damage. He follows that with a second blow from the forceful weapon d20-3 ⇒ (14)-3 = 11 but it goes wide.
Having seen its companion fall in a withering assault, and seriously outnumbered, the quasit changes tactics. It turns invisible, then flies out over the statue on the far end of the room.
Lacking a means of dealing with invisibility, and sensing an imminent attack, Sefora suggests the party line up along the wall facing the statue, then moves into position. The other party members follow suit, making Seek checks once they are in place, but only Samin is mechanically able to succeed so their rolls are irrelevant.
Round 3
Samin makes his Fort save d20+3 ⇒ (9)+6 = 15, and is no longer afflicted with the poison. He attempts a Seek d20+5 ⇒ (10)+5 = 15 but fails.
The Quasit sees what the party has done, and considers its options. It knows it can’t attack without revealing itself, but it harbors a strong enmity for the cleric that touched the idol. It takes time to heal itself twice (spending its third action to remain flying) for 2d4 ⇒ (2,1) = 3 points, then waits to see what the party does.
Sefora takes a guess that the demon is away from the pool and not close to it, so she steps forward 15 ft and fires off a color spray, covering the far wall. She gets lucky and catches the Quasit in the burst, and it succeeds on its Will save d20+4 ⇒ (18)+4 = 22, but not critically so, and is dazzled for 1 round. Sefora doesn’t know if her spell has had any effect.
Unwilling to leave Sefora out by herself, Lira steps up next to her, both weapons drawn.
Amarcus moves up next to Samir for the same reason
Round 4
Samin delays, having no specific action to take.
The Quasit is unable to see its targets and panics. It takes one action to change shape into a bat. No longer dependant on sight, it flies at Sefora and attacks with its fangs d20+7 ⇒ (2)+9 = 22, but isn’t able to sink them in to the wizard.
Lira sees a bat appear in front of Sefora, steps over to get into melee range, then attacks. Her rapier d20+3 ⇒ (15)+3 = 18 strikes true for d6+1 ⇒ (1)+4 = 5 points of damage. Her mace is up next but the swing goes wide d20-1 ⇒ (5)-1 = 4.
Amarcus moves in for his own swing with his sword d20+4 ⇒ (17)+4 = 21 for d8+3 ⇒ (8)+3 = 11 points of damage. His second swing goes wide d20+4 ⇒ (8)-1 = 7.
Round 5
Samin moves in for melee as well, and swings with his scimitar d20+2 ⇒ (9)+2 = 11 twice d20-3 ⇒ (20)-3 = 17, the second time scoring a critical hit. The Quasit has only a single hp remaining but Samin is pissed off and rolls anyway for 2d6+2+1 ⇒ (3,3)+3 = 9, cutting the bat in half. It turns to a demon, or pieces of one, as its lifeless body falls to the ground.
Feedback so far:
The Good
Everyone likes the action economy (but see below about attacks).
Character creation was a pretty fast and easy process, mechanically.
The combat cantrips dealt decent damage. That's probably not going to scale, but at L1 it felt good.
The channel energy/casting Heal mechanic is decent. There's definitely a strong advantage to having a cleric in the party.
The Bad
Ancestries and backgrounds felt weak and uninteresting.
This game seems to require a cleric, and that cleric seems to be stuck in the healbot role.
Everyone was unnerved by the fact that we came within a couple of hit points of having a player death in the very first turn of combat. Not round, but turn. Luckily, the ooze was more than 5' away, and did not get three attacks.
This game is lethal at 1st level. The fact that everyone has the option of 3 attacks all the time makes asymmetric fights incredibly dangerous, especially when the enemies are next to each other in the initiative order. Just having two bad guys on you can expose you to six attacks, and at this level that is enough to drop you in one round. The added mobility is part of the problem, too, as it's trivial to swarm and be swarmed.
This problem is exacerbated by the monsters having significantly higher to-hit rolls. And higher skill bonuses. And higher everything else. More than once people asked "What is Paizo thinking here?"
As for the module itself, having two encounters, nearly back-to-back, with poison afflictions felt like piling insult on injury. I know I came out of this encounter just feeling bad. That heroic turnaround felt good in the moment, but only because we thought for sure one player was going to die. It was pure luck.
There's nothing wrong with a lethal game, I guess, but I can tell you that it just doesn't feel good to play something like this at Level 1. This was just a playtest so the characters were minimally fleshed out, but imagine if these were in a real campaign, where people can spend a couple of hours getting their character created, background written, and so on. Imagine losing all that work after the first two die rolls. Not cool.
This really felt like a 15-minute adventuring day by the time we were done in A6.
Module-wise, pitting quasits against level 1 characters was also not cool at all. At L1, it is not easy to contend with invisibility. The only thing that saved this encounter from being a snooze-fest was the quasit's published tactics. This was another "we were not happy" moment and it felt really unfair.
Also. A Quasit as a DC1 monster? WTF? Who thought that was correct?
An hour to identify magic items means the party is carrying around a potion that they can't use because they don't know what it does.
Simple stuff is locked behind arbitrary rules. For example, Samin's player had been through Rise of the Runelords in PF1, and the minute the quasits appeared he wanted to grapple them to drown them in the water. But you can't grapple unless you are trained in athletics. Because getting your arms around a tiny creature is apparently hard.
The rules have caused a couple of very weird, and frankly nonsensical, inversions:
- - The cleric is better than the rogue at Perception even though the rogue is supposedly an Expert proficiency-wise.
- The cleric tends to be first in initiative because it's based on Perception, which in turn is based on Wis, instead of Dex.
- In fact, the cleric is better than the Rogue at just about everything involving perception (e.g. Searching) because it's tied to Wis. This just felt wrong to everyone, but especially the rogue.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Low on healing, the party decides to call it a day. They collect the goblin bodies on the way out so it’s not so obvious what happened.
The party returns the next day at full strength. They’ve also correctly identified the Minor Healing Potion.
Working from Talga’s map, the party returns to the room with the fountain with the intent of continuing on to what she called the “headquarters”. When they arrive, however, they are surprised to see that the water flowing into the pool is now clear. Samin and Sefora both cast Detect Magic and find that the pool and fountain both register as such. Intrigued, Samin takes a drink and feels its power course through him, though since he’s at full hit points doesn’t notice any effects.
They leave the pool for now and turn their attention to the door to the east, which is the most direct route to the other goblins. Lira looks for traps d20+2 ⇒ (17)+2 = 19 and detects an odd resistance to the door, suspecting there’s some sort of rope or wire connected to it. There’s no obvious way to disarm it, but she suggests slowly opening it will suffice. They agree to give it a shot, and it opens without making any noise.
A corridor runs straight ahead, then turns at a 90-degree angle. A roughly hewn tunnel meets the corridor at the corner.
The party notices a dim light coming from the tunnel, and they quickly dispel the Light spells on their rocks.
They cautiously enter the tunnel, Lira and Amarcus in the lead. They both d20+3 ⇒ (20)+3 = 23, d20+3 ⇒ (10)+3 = 13 hear the sounds of goblins arguing, and motion for everyone to stop. Amarcus speaks goblin, and is able to tell they are fighting over a scrap of meat. Lira motions for them to stay behind, and she Sneaks d20+3 ⇒ (19)+3 = 22 down to get a look at the cavern d20+2 ⇒ (18)+2 = 20. The GM rules that the goblins are distracted, but her roll exceeds even their unmodified DC’s.
Lira cautiously steps back up to the party and reports what she saw: there are five goblins around a fire in the center of the room, and a crude rope trap is rigged to drop rocks near the entrance to the tunnel. The pull rope is just a few feet away from where the goblins are sitting.
In hushed whispers, they come up with a plan of attack, and head down the stairs. The GM rolls initiative. (Goblin Commando d20+5 ⇒ (20)+5 = 25, Goblin Pyro d20+2 ⇒ (1)+2 = 3, Goblin Warriors d20+1 ⇒ (13)+1 = 14, d20+1 ⇒ (8)+1 = 9, d20+1 ⇒ (18)+1 = 19) (Lira d20+3 ⇒ (16)+3 = 19, Amarcus d20+3 ⇒ (18)+3 = 21, Samin d20+5 ⇒ (19)+5 = 24, Sefora d20+2 ⇒ (10)+2 = 12)
Round 1
The goblin commando jumps to his feet and rushes forward to meet the suspected intruders, stopping just short of the trap zone.
Samin comes down the steps and into the cavern and engages the goblin commando. He swings twice d20+2 ⇒ (1)+2 = 3, d20-3 ⇒ (11)-3 = 8 but both attacks miss. Though he heard Lira’s description of the rock track, he misunderstood its exact placement and doesn’t realize he’s underneath one corner of it.
Amarcus comes through next, and moves clear of the trap area to engage the goblin commando. He also swings twice d20+4 ⇒ (9)+4 = 13, d20+4 ⇒ (5)+4 = 9, and also misses both times.
Goblin Warrior 3 stands up, draws his shortbow, and fires at Amarcus d20+6 ⇒ (1)+6 = 7 but misses.
Lira enters next, and moves alongside Samin. She uses a free action to warn him, then engages GC. She swings her rapier d20+3 ⇒ (17)+3 = 20 and connects for 1d6+4 ⇒ (3)+4 = 7 points of damage, then follows up with her mace d20-1 ⇒ (3)-1 = 2 but misses.
GW1 stands up, draws his shortbow and fires at Lira d20+6 ⇒ (12)+6 = 18 for d6 ⇒ (6) = 6 points of damage.
Sefora enters last, moving along the cavern wall next to Amarcus. She casts Color Spray in the pack of goblins, forcing Will saves from GW2 d20 ⇒ (18) = 18, GW3 d20 ⇒ (11) = 11, and the Goblin Pyro d20+1 ⇒ (7)+1 = 8. GW2 is dazzled for 1 round, and GW3 and GP are blinded for 1 round and dazzled for 4.
GW2 is dazzled, so she stands up, moves to the pull rope and releases the trap. Rocks fall from the net above onto Samin who d20+1 ⇒ (3)+1 = 4 fails his Reflex save, taking 2d6 ⇒ (2,4) = 6 points of damage.
GP is blind and dazzled. She moves carefully to the other side of the cavern, then fires off Burning Hands in what she thinks is the correct direction. The GM rolls a d3 for the direction (down, angled, or across) d3 ⇒ (1) = 1 and it catches Lira and Samin. Lira saves d20+4 ⇒ (12)+4 = 16 and takes only d6 ⇒ (2) = 2 points of damage, but Samin fails d20+1 ⇒ (7)+1 = 8 and takes 2d6 ⇒ (3,6) = 9 points of fire damage.
Round 2
GC sees Samin is badly hurt, and presses the attack d20+7 ⇒ (17)+7 = 24 scoring a critical hit. He rolls low, but the 2d8+2 ⇒ (2,1)+2 = 5 points of damage is enough to knock the cleric down, and he is now unconscious and dying 2. GC steps away from Amarcus and towards Lira, sending his second attack d20+2 ⇒ (6)+2 = 8 at the weakened halfling who easily dodges out of the way of the blow.
Amarcus is torn between the goblin warrior next to Sefora, or the goblins ganging up on Lira. Sefora uses a free action to yell “Go! Help Lira!” so he steps over to engage GC, but both of his swings d20+4 ⇒ (1)+4 = 5, d20-1 ⇒ (10)-1 = 9 go wide.
GW3 is blind. He makes a Sense check and fails d20+1-4 ⇒ (2)+1-4 = -1, unable to find a target to shoot at.
Recognizing she’s in trouble, Lira tries a desperate Demoralize action against GC. FOrtunately for her, the commando speaks common, but her roll d20+3 ⇒ (7)+3 = 10 is not high enough to beat GC’s Will DC. She follows up with a swing of her rapier d20+3 ⇒ (13)+3 = 16 and hits for d6+4 ⇒ (2)+4 = 6 points of damage. She retreats back to the tunnel entrance.
GW1 fires his shortbow at Sefora d20+6 ⇒ (17)+6 = 23 and hits for d6 ⇒ (3) = 3 points of damage, but his second d20+1 ⇒ (11)+1 = 12 and third d20-4 ⇒ (3)-4 = -1 thunk against the cavern wall.
Sefora fires a Ray of Frost at GW2 d20+5 ⇒ (1)+5 = 6 but misses on a natural 1. She backs up towards Lira.
GW2 is no longer dazzled. Seeing Amarcus near her, she pulls out her dogslicer and attacks d20+6 ⇒ (13)+6 = 19 slashing the half-elf for d6 ⇒ (2) = 2 points of damage. She follows up with a second attack d20+2 ⇒ (6)+2 = 8 but misses.
GP is dazzled, and casts Tanglefoot d20+6 ⇒ (9)+6 = 15 on Amarcus but fails the DC5 flat check d20 ⇒ (1) = 1.
Round 3
Samin rolls a Fortitude save d20+3 ⇒ (12)+3 = 15 and the result is high enough to stabilize. He now has 1 hp and is dying 1.
GC presses the attack against Amarcus and attempts a Trip maneuver d20+4 ⇒ (8)+4 = 12 with his horsechopper but it doesn’t beat Amarcus’s Reflex DC, so he switches to a strike d20+7 ⇒ (8)+7 = 15 but still comes up short. He tries one more Trip attempt d20+4 ⇒ (8)+4 = 13, and this also fails.
Frustrated and angry, Amarcus lashes out at GC with his sword d20+4 ⇒ (14)+4 = 18 and lands a solid blow. The d8+3 ⇒ (7)+3 = 10 points of damage finishes the commando off. He then turns his fury on GW2, attempting a Demoralize in goblin and scores a critical success d20-1 ⇒ (20)-1 = 19. GW2 is now frightened 2 and fleeing. He follows that up with an attack d20-1 ⇒ (13)-1 = 12 but his sword just misses.
GW3 is now dazzled. He pulls out his shortbow and shoots at Amarcus d20+6 ⇒ (20)+6 = 26 but fails d20 ⇒ (1) = 1 his DC5 flat check, eliminating a potential critical hit. The second arrow d20+1 ⇒ (14)+1 = 15 flies wide.
Lira pulls out the healing potion, runs to the unconscious Samin and force-feeds it to him. He spends 1 resonance point and recovers d8 ⇒ (6) = 6 hit points.
GW1 fires three arrows at Amarcus d20+6 ⇒ (5)+6 = 11, d20+1 ⇒ (3)+1 = 4, d20-4 ⇒ (20)-4 = 16 and the third is a critical hit, but rolls poorly for d10+d6 ⇒ (1)+(3) = 4 points of damage.
Sefora casts Tanglefoot on GP d20+5 ⇒ (4)+5 = 9 but misses.
GW2 is frightened 2 and fleeing, and moves to the back of the cave where she drops her weapons and frantically tries to climb d20+3-2 ⇒ (8)+3-2 = 9, d20+3-2 ⇒ (17)+3-2 = 18 up to a ledge. She makes it 5’ up. She is now frightened 1.
GP is still dazzled. She casts Tanglefoot on Sefora d20+6 ⇒ (13)+6 = 19 and hits. Sefora is now entangled.
Round 4
Samin loses the dying condition and is now conscious.
Amarcus moves to GW3 and attacks d20+4 ⇒ (11)+4 = 15 for d8+3 ⇒ (3)+3 = 6 points of damage. GW3 drops. He attempts to Demoralize GP d20-1 ⇒ (13)-1 = 12 and succeeds, making her frightened 1.
Lira stands up and readies an action to attack any goblin that gets within 5 ft of her and Samin (currently occupying the same square)
GW1 fires his last arrow at Amarcus d20+6 ⇒ (1)+6 = 7 and misses. He drops his bow and draws his dogslicer.
Sefora makes an Acrobatics check d20 ⇒ (20) = 20 and breaks free of the entanglement. She fires a Ray of Frost at GP d20+5 ⇒ (5)+5 = 10 but misses.
GW2 is no longer fleeing, and drops to the ground. Still frightened, she picks up her weapon and runs to GW1. GW1 steps in reaction.
GP steps forward and casts Burning Hands towards, and forcing Reflex saves by, Amarcus d20+4 ⇒ (10)+4 = 14, Lira d20+4 ⇒ (4)+4 = 8 and Samin d20+1 ⇒ (19)+1 = 20 for 2d6 ⇒ (3,6) = 9 points of fire damage. Lira spends her two hero points to reroll d20+4 ⇒ (10)+4 = 14 but still comes up short and regains 1 hero point, which she immediately spends because she’s dropped to 0 hp and would otherwise be dying 1. She’s back to 1 hp.
Round 5
Samin channels to heal himself for d8+4 ⇒ (3)+4 = 7 points, and two actions to heal Lira for 2d8+4 ⇒ (6,4)+4 = 14 points.
Amarcus moves up to GP and swings d20+4 ⇒ (1)+4 = 5 and misses, then swings again d20-1 ⇒ (15)-1 = 14 and deals d8+3 ⇒ (7)+3 = 10 points of damage.
Back to full strength, Lira engages GP as well d20+3 ⇒ (2)+3 = 5, misses, then tries again and succeeds d20-2 ⇒ (16)-2 = 14 and GP drops from the d8+3 ⇒ (3)+3 = 6 points of damage.
GW1 rushes Amarcus and attacks twice, d20+6 ⇒ (12)+6 = 18, d20+1 ⇒ (15)+1 = 16, and hits twice for d6 ⇒ (3) = 3 and d6 ⇒ (3) = 3 points of damage. Amarcus is now just barely standing at 1 hp.
Sefora sees this unfold, and with GW2 up next, she casts Ray of Frost d20+5 ⇒ (11)+5 = 16 and finally succeeds on an attack roll. GW2 drops from the d8+4 ⇒ (4)+4 = 8 points of cold damage.
The GM rules that combat is over. The last remaining goblin has only 6 hp, is surrounded, and three of the PC’s will act before its turn.
Samin channels and uses the three-action form of Heal to restore d8+4 ⇒ (7)+4 = 11 hp to the entire party. He then uses Healer’s Blessing to give Amarcus d8+4+2 ⇒ (4)+4+2 = 10 hp. Everyone is now back to full strength.
The cavern is large and filthy, so everyone does a search. It’s Lira d20+3 ⇒ (16)+3 = 19 who turns up a stash of items under some moldy straw. She pulls out two flasks of what look slike alchemist’s fire, a smokestick, and 10cp.
Remembering the goblin that tried to climb the ledge, Lira and Amarcus attempt to do the same to see what’s up there. Amarcus d20+1 ⇒ (5)+1 = 6 isn’t able to get a grip at all, and Lira gets a good start d20 ⇒ (12) = 12 but isn’t able to hold on. Sefora tries next d20-1 ⇒ (7)-1 = 6, as does Samin d20-2 ⇒ (14)-2 = 12. Frustrated that a goblin can do this, Amarcus gives it another try and finally makes it up d20+1 ⇒ (15)+1 = 16. He calls for some light, and Sefora puts a Light spell on a stone and tosses it up. He looks around but there isn’t anything there d20+2 ⇒ (8)+2 = 10.
The others are skeptical, so he lowers a rope for Lira. She scrambles up and finds d20+3 ⇒ (19)+3 = 22 a secret door which appears to be locked. There’s a tiny keyhole that she thinks she can pick, so she pulls out her tools. Six Thievery checks later (rolls not shown) the door opens.
Feedback at this point:
The dying rules are too fussy, even with the changes. There has to be a simpler way. In a tabletop game, I can see this grinding things to a halt. It was also no fun having a player out of commission for several rounds while they just rolled Fort saves.
Always, always, always spend the Hero Point to end dying. Otherwise you're going to experience the above.
We hated this encounter with a passion. It was the first one with monsters acting intelligently, and the party got into serious trouble really quickly. The higher attack bonuses of the monsters were really evident and made the battle feel heavily one-sided. One of the other big issues is that everyone (PCs and NPCs alike) can just move around the battlefield willy-nilly. It felt unrealistic, and it's hard to develop tactics to counteract "can move with impunity".
It feels completely wrong that the cleric is better at searching for secret doors and traps than the rogue.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
FYI, the goblin crit arrow should have done 2d6+d10. Deadly is exactly that.
And the 3-action heal doesn't heal 1d8+4, just the 4. Which is OK at 1st level but doesn't scale in the least.
FYI, the goblin crit arrow should have done 2d6+d10. Deadly is exactly that.
And the 3-action heal doesn't heal 1d8+4, just the 4. Which is OK at 1st level but doesn't scale in the least.
Thanks, Mudfoot.
I see we made that healing mistake earlier, too (on "day 1"). It doesn't look like either one affected combat, but obviously it was a resource boon. Messing up the crit damage on the arrow was significant since Amarcus dropped to 1 hp shortly afterwards. So a big error in their favor there.
I also see some other errors here and there as I read through the log (and review them in the post history). We had a couple of 4-action turns, for instance. :P And Samin could have grappled that Quasit since you don't have to be trained in Athletics to grapple, though the -2 penalty makes that unattractive.
Thanks for reading through all this! This is why I posted rolls in excruciating detail. The best way to learn is through mistakes.
Adventure concluded
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Parting thoughts:
I was planning to run folks through the current playtest adventure, Affair at Sombrefell Hall, but two of the four players (Samin and Amarcus) declined to return until the game seriously changes. I admit I was hard on Samin at the end, but he said it was the whole experience, not just Drakus's tactics.
Sefora felt the wizard was short-changed by the action economy. Everyone else gets to move around a lot or attack multiple times, but she felt the wizard is stuck with "move, cast spell" each turn, just like in PF1, only the spells are not as good and the enemies saves are better.
The fight with Drakus started exciting, but the players stopped having fun near the end because his AC was too high, his to-hit bonus was too high, and his hit points were too high and his skills were too high and his DCs were too high and...you get the picture. I also stopped having fun, but if I pulled my punches I wouldn't legitimately be able to say to Paizo that this game sucks.
So. This game sucks.
Yeah, I am sure we all made some mistakes, and a few times people forgot about abilities or items they have, but that happens in PF1, as well. PF2 has zero tolerance for errors and that is seriously not fun. I left this experience feeling seriously bummed out.
If Lost Star is intended to be an intro to PF2, then the introduction says "this game is on hard mode and you can expect to die". Is that really the message you want to be sending? If not, then the game needs work. If so, then I am not interested in your game.
I wish I had something positive to say about the game. There are things we all liked about it, but they are not what stand out.
Sorry about the giant font in the last game log. Somehow I ended up with "bigger" tags around everything.
Tracking Table
1. How long did it take to play this part of Doomsday Dawn (not counting preparation or character creation)?
Not really applicable since it was PbP. We had a couple of weekends with lightning sessions b/c everyone was available which really sped things up.
Q3 is definitely n/a so I am skipping it.
2. How long did it take to prepare this part of the adventure?
About 20 hours since that included learning the game system well enough to be able to help players and look things up quickly.
4. How many Hero Points (in total) did you give out during this part of the adventure?
1
5. How many times was a player character reduced to 0 Hit Points during this part of the adventure?
4
How many player characters were killed during this part of the adventure?
0, but we got within 1 round of that.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
FYI, when you get to Dying and recover, you're prone and sluggish, and you've probably dropped your weapon. So when Samin and Amarcus were dropped, they should have spent their first round just getting up or crawling out of reach.
Yup, it gets worse.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Spreading Drakus' attacks around like that probably saved the party. Thematic & fun but concentrating his attacks would have won the fight for him I think. I can see how some GMs (e.g. Colette) get repeated TPKs.
FYI, when you get to Dying and recover, you're prone and sluggish, and you've probably dropped your weapon. So when Samin and Amarcus were dropped, they should have spent their first round just getting up or crawling out of reach.
Yup, it gets worse.
This was me deliberately being kind. I am pretty sure I messed up the dying rules in A7, and just wasn't ready to wade through it again. So I played it as though spending a Hero Point kept you at 1 HP instead of dropping you. Because, as you say, it gets worse. :( This fight was already turning into a TPK.
Spreading Drakus' attacks around like that probably saved the party. Thematic & fun but concentrating his attacks would have won the fight for him I think. I can see how some GMs (e.g. Colette) get repeated TPKs
He didn't really have many options. The grease spell meant there was just a 5' wide path along the walls of the east end of A10:
OOO
OGG
OGG
OOO
which the PC's used to keep Drakus from being able to single out a target. This was Sefora's idea once she saw Drakus relentlessly going after Samin. Of course, it got in their way, too, but I think it would have worked if Sefora was rolling better, or had memorized True Strike. The latter ended up being a "lesson learned".
It meant Drakus had to determine from round to round who the next-biggest threat was as his possible targets kept changing.
You are right that I did pull one punch, though: when Drakus got Amarcus down to 1 hp, he should have pursued and finished the ranger off. But Sefora was still pretty dangerous, and had a ranged attack that could hit him, so I went thematic instead of brutal.