Cantrip clarification


Skills, Feats, Equipment & Spells


Sorry for the noob question, just wondering when you heighten a cantrip to say 3rd level, would that cost a 3rd level spell slot or still count as a cantrip you can use without limit?

One last question regards to the conditions of spells. Do multiple conditional penalties from different sources stack?


Cantrips, p 193 wrote:
You can’t prepare a cantrip in a numbered spell slot. A cantrip is always automatically heightened to the highest level of spell you can cast in the class. This makes a cantrip a 1st-level spell if you can cast 1st-level spells, a 2nd-level spell if you can cast 2nd-level spells, and so on. If you gain access to a cantrip but aren’t normally a spellcaster, your cantrips automatically heightened to half your level, rounded up.


CommanderCoyler wrote:
Cantrips, p 193 wrote:
You can’t prepare a cantrip in a numbered spell slot. A cantrip is always automatically heightened to the highest level of spell you can cast in the class. This makes a cantrip a 1st-level spell if you can cast 1st-level spells, a 2nd-level spell if you can cast 2nd-level spells, and so on. If you gain access to a cantrip but aren’t normally a spellcaster, your cantrips automatically heightened to half your level, rounded up.

Cantrips are fantastic! Paizo has done well with this decision!


Atalius wrote:
One last question regards to the conditions of spells. Do multiple conditional penalties from different sources stack?

They do not.

page 291, Penalties wrote:
As with bonuses, if you gain multiple circumstance, conditional, or item penalties, only the worst penalty of each type applies. However, there’s also a special, fourth kind of penalty that doesn’t have a type, called an untyped penalty. These include the multiple attack penalty (see page 305) and the check penalty from your armor (see page 176). All relevant untyped penalties combine and apply to your roll, no matter how many different ones you have. Untyped penalties are always the result of choices you’ve made, and are never forcibly applied to your character by an opponent or situation.


Thanks Fuzzy! I'm going to have a tough time stacking negatives as most things I've come across are conditional penalties.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Atalius wrote:
Cantrips are fantastic! Paizo has done well with this decision!

Eh, the auto-heightening is nice. The scaling on it is awful.

You have to be 5th level before you get to add your casting stat to damage.


Can anyone confirm that if you are a level 3 caster, that your cantrips become heightened to level 3 yet still don't cost a level 3 spell slot to use?

And you may use these spells round after round without running out? Seems super strong.


Crexis wrote:
Can anyone confirm that if you are a level 3 caster, that your cantrips become heightened to level 3 yet still don't cost a level 3 spell slot to use?

At 3rd nothing happens.

They don't heighten until you're level 5 and have access to 3rd level spells.

And yes. We can confirm:

CommanderCoyler wrote:
Cantrips, p 193 wrote:
You can’t prepare a cantrip in a numbered spell slot. A cantrip is always automatically heightened to the highest level of spell you can cast in the class. This makes a cantrip a 1st-level spell if you can cast 1st-level spells, a 2nd-level spell if you can cast 2nd-level spells, and so on. If you gain access to a cantrip but aren’t normally a spellcaster, your cantrips automatically heightened to half your level, rounded up.

Literally the second post in this thread.


Dumb question here. If I am a level 1 Druid do I have Cantrips if so how.many do I get? also where spell points for druids located?

Thanks


IronDM72 wrote:
If I am a level 1 Druid do I have Cantrips if so how.many do I get?
Primal Spellcasting, p79 wrote:
At 1st level, you can prepare two 1st-level spells and four cantrips each morning from the common spells on the primal spell list in this book (see page 201), or from other primal spells to which you gain access.

So 4, same as every other spellcasting class at level 1. Note that, unless you're getting cantrips from another source, that's all you get for your entire career as Druids don't get the 'Expanded Cantrips' feat that others get. You still get to choose from the entire primal spell list each day as with other spells.

IronDM72 wrote:
Where spell points for druids located?
Druidic Order, p80 wrote:
You gain a pool of Spell Points. Your maximum number of Spell Points is equal to your key ability modifer. You regain all your Spell Points when you prepare your spells (see Daily Preparations on page 192)

So Wis mod, you get your first power from your choice of order and more from feats (which usually also increase your spell pool by the amount the power costs).


CommanderCoyler wrote:
IronDM72 wrote:
If I am a level 1 Druid do I have Cantrips if so how.many do I get?
Primal Spellcasting, p79 wrote:
At 1st level, you can prepare two 1st-level spells and four cantrips each morning from the common spells on the primal spell list in this book (see page 201), or from other primal spells to which you gain access.

So 4, same as every other spellcasting class at level 1. Note that, unless you're getting cantrips from another source, that's all you get for your entire career as Druids don't get the 'Expanded Cantrips' feat that others get. You still get to choose from the entire primal spell list each day as with other spells.

IronDM72 wrote:
Where spell points for druids located?
Druidic Order, p80 wrote:
You gain a pool of Spell Points. Your maximum number of Spell Points is equal to your key ability modifer. You regain all your Spell Points when you prepare your spells (see Daily Preparations on page 192)

So Wis mod, you get your first power from your choice of order and more from feats (which usually also increase your spell pool by the amount the power costs).

Thanks


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Crexis wrote:

Can anyone confirm that if you are a level 3 caster, that your cantrips become heightened to level 3 yet still don't cost a level 3 spell slot to use?

And you may use these spells round after round without running out? Seems super strong.

Besides the fact that, as has already been stated, the cantips don't scale to your level, they scale to your spell's levels (so level 5 is when you get level 3 spells and cantrips would scale that high), it really isn't that powerful at all.

Ray of Frost is probably the most simple attacking cantrip in the game right now (there are better ones, but they scale the same way, so it doesn't matter), it will always be not anywhere as strong as a martial character's expected weapons at the same level.

Fully maxed out, Ray of Frost used two actions and does 4d8 + MOD. A fully maxed out Longsword takes one action to attack with, does 6d8 + Str, and will almost certainly have some other effect, such as Vorpal or Speed. I use fully maxed out since it's easy to understand, but the comparison is about equal at every level.

The Cantrip is far less effective over all. They are still really good and really useful though because they give you something to fall back on that still IS useful if you either run out of or need to save your spells. And they shouldn't be as good as a martial's consistent damage options because casters have their powerful spells.

They're still much better than PF1 where Ray of Frost did 1d3 damage and NEVER GOT BETTER. Even at level 1 that was piddly damage.

Community / Forums / Archive / Pathfinder / Playtests & Prerelease Discussions / Pathfinder Playtest / Player Rules / Skills, Feats, Equipment & Spells / Cantrip clarification All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Skills, Feats, Equipment & Spells