I like the new death and dying rules in the errata but there are a few problems


Playing the Game


I like the new Death and Dying rules in the errata, but having said that, there are a few problems with them.

Problem #1: In the Recovery Saving Throws section, it never describes what happens when you get to Dying 0. I'm only assuming the Dying condition goes away at Dying 0 and you're not making recovery rolls until you regain consciousness?

I thought I’d mention that I like this change: “When you’re unconscious and at 0 HP but no longer dying, you naturally return to 1 HP and awaken after sufficient time passes. The GM determines how long you remain unconscious, from at least 10 minutes to several hours.”

Besides that looks good and my players will try them out soon.


Jason S wrote:
I’d say leave it as DC 15, you can’t even regain consciousness anymore, and the DC is relevant until level 10.

I'd say make it a flat check of DC 10 or 11, that way it's always relevant


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CommanderCoyler wrote:
I'd say make it a flat check of DC 10 or 11, that way it's always relevant

That could work, but it assumes you don't get better at stabilizing as you gain levels.


My way abstracts it, in the same way as getting the Dying X condition abstracts how far past 0 you are.
Both sorta have you getting better with level, you're not going to be facing level 1 enemies at level 20 after all. Just the roll stays the same for simplicity's sake.


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I believe by RAW the new rules I think have an unintended effect. It says that if you take damage while currently unconscious, you re-apply the effects as if that attack just knocked you unconscious. It makes a point to mention if the new Recovery DC is higher you use it, but otherwise the same.

That means that if I'm at Dying 3 and if my companion who goes right before my new Initiative order, slashes me with a knife taking a minor, non-critical wound, although my recovery DC could potentially increase, it would also assign me to Dying 1. [Dying 2 if they accidentally got a critical on me]

I think it is clearly intended to say that in getting knocked out that if taking damage which would knock someone one they increase their dying level by 1 or increase the dying condition by 2 if the hit was a critical hit (in either case, gaining the dying condition if not starting with it).

It was also a little confusing that when you lose the dying condition. (from successful recovery check) It sounded like you, on making your recovery check, immediately went to 1hp, and would wake up in 10+minutes. However, in another area, it implied upon reaching 1HP you automatically regain consciousness. Leaving one to wonder if that should then wake you up earlier.

It think in the end the intended meaning is that if you make your recovery check, and lose the dying condition, you stay at 0hp, and at a time determined by the GM (10+minutes) you will gain 1HP and become conscious again. If that is the intent, it might need some rewording.

Might also include a clause when getting a critical success on a recovery check, if the reduction of dying condition results in its removal, allow them to be immediately brought to 1HP and conscious. [granted, hero point usage allows it, but this would give a natural but rare chance for someone to recover on their own in a short time]

Personally, I like the idea of someone with positive HP being able to still be unconscious, which this set of rules seems to prevent. But I understand the concern that it adds complexity.


Jason S wrote:
Problem #1: In the Recovery Saving Throws section, it never describes what happens when you get to Dying 0. I'm only assuming the Dying condition goes away at Dying 0 and you're not making recovery rolls until you regain consciousness?

All conditions with a number end when that number reaches 0:

Core, p319:

Quote:

CONDITION VALUES

Some conditions have a numerical value, called a
condition value, indicated by a numeral following the
condition. This value might enumerate a bonus or penalty
the condition gives you. These values can often be reduced
by spells, skills, or simply waiting. If such a value is ever
reduced to 0, the condition ends.

Grand Lodge

I think the new dying rules are better but like Jason mentioned in the stream it could cause the yo-yo effect to return.
I don’t think there is a good solution to recovering from dying personally. I think the focus should be on the situation before you fall unconscious.

Let’s be honest, being knocked unconcious is the most unsatisfying and disheartening part of rpgs and also one of the most unrealistic. From 100 to 1 hps you are at the peak of fitness mechanically. While we could introduce endurance penalties we all know the micro management of such a system is jut not worth it.

What I propose is to introduce a downed condition instead of knocked out. That is when you reach 0 you fall prone clutching your body from that fatal wound, struggling to find your way to a safe place or slumping against a wall hoping the cleric rushes to your aid.

I was thinking of using the dying 0 for this new rule. but as Draco18s points out that breaks the condition rules.

Hitting 0 you still suffer the death and dying rules but get 1 round of actions (less whatever conditions are applied to you for taking that falling blow) to crawl out of harms way, call for help, or even administer first aid to yourself before you slip into unconsciousness. Any lethal damage would take you to dying 1 so you better make sure your in a safe place before attempting anything.

I also think there should be a deaths-door condition. this is a permanent condition only removeable by rest and applied each time you gain the dying condition. deaths-door increases the dying condition by its value. The first time you gain dying condition you gain deaths-door 1, if you gain dying 1 again, increase it by 1 and gain deaths-door 2, if you gain dying again that day you would increase it by 2, this could make you hit dying 4 (and die) if they happen to get critical success on you. 3rd time, your at dying 4 straight away and die (3 strikes and out)

But this could be a little overkill perhaps.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

If dying disabled you, but didn’t immediately make you unconscious, that would be better.

Just be sure the disabled condition makes it genuinely harder to do anything.

To prevent jack-in-the-boxing have someone who was dying retain the disabled condition until healed to at least half hp or whatever is reasonable.

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