Part 2: In Pale Mountain’s Shadow Playthrough

[Dexter Coffee]

1. How long did it take to play this part of Doomsday
Dawn (not counting preparation or character creation)?
About 4 hours, mostly indecisiveness of magic items selection.
2. How long did it take to prepare this part of the adventure
(time spent reading, gathering materials, etc.)?
4-5 hours
3. How many sessions did it take for you to play through
this part of the adventure?
1
4. How many Hero Points (in total) did you give out
during this part of the adventure?
None, once more forgotten about, much to the party's chagrin.
5. How many times was a player character reduced to 0
Hit Points during this part of the adventure?
2
6. How many player characters were killed during this
part of the adventure?
1
Adventure Specific Questions
In Pale Mountain’s Shadow
Did the player characters beat the rival adventuring party to the site? If so, how much sooner did the PCs arrive? Yes, with 24 hours to spare.
(MY ADDED QUESTION) How did the environment based elements feel? Who knows? That was secondary to just plain getting our butts kicked in every encounter except one.

Party Composition
Human Monk (GM PC, Str Based)
Half-Elf Ranger (bow focused to test if ranged attacking is as bad as forums say)
Halfling Bard (Maestro)
Half-Orc Sorcerer (Draconic Black)

The Journey
Day 1-3
Went well until the rougher terrain making them in just 3 days.
Decided to take the Horses but lead them on foot as far as they could go, in case a quick escape would be needed (it was).

B1. The Gnarled Foothills
Day 3
Not really knowing how to handle the Stealth again, simply called for perception against the hyena's Stealth DC. The Ranger succeeds and points them out (a whole action now apparently), but I rule that means they all use perception.
Side Note: Don't mind just getting instructions to draw our own map as I freehand stuff a lot anyway, but some might not like this aspect. I'm fine with it though
The party wins the initiative and all the hyenas go last.
Combat goes decent, the Monk got hit as he was the focus of the hyenas being in front and being my GMPC I have him dragged through the brambles for hilarity purposes.
It did use a lot of resources though and they rest a night and blow healing spells, and one potion.

B2. Sand Flats
Day 4-6
The ranger spots the quicksand and the odd lump. Failure to notice it is and ankeg pit. They think it is a trap but decided to go in swinging for the loot and glory like true murder hobos. Ankeg goes second to last Monk misses all attacks entire fight Ranger and Casters do all of the damage. A lot of damage taken again so they use the potions found but were so very low and resource depleted. They rest for 2 whole days. DEADLIEST 2 MILES EVER.

B3. Gnoll Camp
Day 6
After all the damage and resource heavy combat they AVOID this encounter taking the long way around. Don't succeed any of the checks as well.

B4. A Treacherous Climb
Day 6
Leave the horses at the bottom, Bard high rolls and find the easy way the Ranger missed *sigh* on the first try.
Come across the dead gnolls, no one can figure out it is a manticore (at least in game). Party is VERY scared. Soon will be proven right to have been so.

Manticore appears, use Stealth for whatever reason when it has nothing to hide behind just because it says so and to be nice to the party since its perception is much better.

Goes horribly. Strafes until out of spines. Ranger gets -2 at all-time due to it staying within 40ft. Gets a few hits in and the Sorcerer takes no chances with three 3 action magic missiles (one for MAX damage!). Finally lands and the Monk gets to use those actions he has been continually delaying and hits HARD. Manticore HITS HARDER, crits him and the Sorcerer and brings them to Dying2. Bard and Ranger try to finish off the Manticore quickly (mistake, remember hero points were forgotten). They don't do enough damage and with a DC 22-23 Fort save for the Dying condition little hope for our compatriots, Dying 3. Ranger gets lucky kill the Manticore with a crit after being crit himself. Monk dies, and Sorcerer is saved by a Soothe spell (why no stabilize in occult, why is it 2 actions, couldn't it be added to occult and brought to 1 action as quick save option?). Unfortunate group forgetfulness (mostly my fault, as I don't like them and tend to look over this part of the rules, need to work on that) of Hero Points and the Monk having the last healing potion in his pocket. Rest another 2 days at this sport, hide the Monks body on the mountain side. Party already unhappy is completely demoralized (in and out of game). Feels like a slog from this point on. (BTW, the magic weapon was the monk’s temple sword, the party regretted deciding he should get it now.)

B5. Approaching the Tomb
Day 8
Bard high rolls Diplomacy with the gnolls (nat 20). They go on their way just as depressed at the PC's and just wanting of the mountain now that the manticore was dealt with.

C1. The Back Door
Find trap, Sorcerer figure out what it does, Ranger uses wooden bow as an insulator and pull the handle that way.
C2. Chamber of the Sunken Stones
Peaks In. AVOID AVOID AVOID
C3. Chamber of the Burning Sky
See C2
C4. Chamber of Planar Alignment
Thought this would impossible without the gems, Sorcerer proves me wrong with enough 18's and 19's for this to only take 4 hours.
C5. Mabar’s Prison
Finally, a use for the alchemist's fire, Mummy's go down hard, but not before Criting the Ranger and giving him the Lesser Rot. Free Mabar, Story Time, Ask for Aid, Granted
C6. Chamber of Contemplation
Trap sucked but it was all good, decide to take anything not nailed down and get the hell out of here
THE NIGHT HERALDS ARRIVE
The party asks for Mabar's aid hauling the needed books (and mirror frame so they claim) to the Order, he does they grab the Monk and head back riding for 24 hours straight nearly killing the horses as laden as they are. (Yay no limits Darkvision) Low rolls to follow by Heralds, good luck for once. Get back down one Monk, get drunk (game and IRL), bemoan this adventure something fierce, go to pazio.com, comma splice like my life depends on it.

I mean no sarcasm, this one was just plain not fun. I know I fail a lot at the RAW, I am trying since it is a play-test. Everyone felt weak and the initiative thing still irks us. The environmental rules were secondary to the party just wanting to get it the hell over with and RUN, so anything hard looking after the Manticore fight was avoided and thanks to RNG feasible. I know the party was non-optimal with no main healer, but it should at least be viable to some degree.
EDIT:(Don't Want to Sound Too Negative)Can't wait until some other people have played this. I like a lot about the playtest and hope our experience is an outlier honestly. Still needs a lot of work to take me away from 1E, but I have faith in the guys and gals at Paizo.

[Nachti]

Hi, we started playing In Pale Mountains Shadow yesterday and only got to defeat the Gnolls after 4 hours, incredible you rushed through the entire thing in 4 hours!

So far though everyone had a lot of fun and we all feel like 2E works really well (combat definitely is more fun and more varied than 1E), although the playtest does seem to be pretty tough.

Party has a s*@! ton of healing this time around, the opposite of the party during the first part that had basically zero healing (still managed to beat the entire first part without rest!). Sorcerer with divine spells and Fighter multiclass, hitting things with a big club; Ranger with a shortbow; Cleric of Iomedae also with Fighter multiclass and Paladin.

They made the journey to the foothills in 5 days, fought the Hyenas that almost killed the Sorcerer but she just healed up again and again. The Ankhrav only got his Acid Breath off before dying in the second round before it's second turn due to good initiative and attack rolls. They basically stormed the Gnoll camp with very low resources and everyone being already lightly damaged, spread out and failed a couple of swim checks so that fight was really close - in the end, everyone but the ranger was down (thanks to 21 AC she was pretty damn tanky) who managed to kill one of the Gnolls over a few rounds until the rest of the party made it back to concsiousness via good rolls and/or use of Hero Points. Grueling fight, but still everyone was totally invested and had fun. So they rested and we called it a night.

Next up is the Manticore. I was wondering about that because boy, that thing looks nasty. Also, should Spike Volley maybe be a double action? Because why would it ever use the normal Ranged Strike instead of Spike Volley?

Too bad you guys didn't like it. How did you like the first part?

[Dexter Coffee]

First part wasn’t so bad the two times we ran it. Wonky but entertaining, not enough to pull us away fro 1E as it stands though. Too many classes are just too weak. Evidenced by us playing mostly sub-optimal characters in Pale Mountain. We wanted a challenge but was more pain than entertainin.

[Dexter Coffee]

Going to do a full write-up of Somberfell in a few days. That one with 2 Clerics 1 Paladin and 1 Druid was a ROFLstomp until the last boss. He was just plain annoying, even for me as GM I didn’t like that fight took forever due to many many misses and his special ability. As well as the fact he took a few turns flying and peppering the group with spells until he ran out. Only even got to do that because of a failure on a Suggestion spell that forced the group out of their hides hole, but that was fair and funny. I love mind controlling Paladins.

[Kennethray]

We just finished the first session of this and just got past the gnoll camp by the river. With a cleric, ranger, druid, and barbarian they have no problems. The fights have been very easy for them so far. The barbarian dropped once but the druid (wild shape) pretty much just solos encounters. Hopefully, the manticore will put a little fear into that druid.

K-ray

[Janet Kuhlmann]

This is in the vein of a question BEFORE we run a session rather than feedback on what happened during a playtest.

We're getting ready to run "In Pale Mountain's Shadow" and my husband noticed that Zafkar does 2d6 with his scimitar and yet it is not indicated as being a +1 weapon, nor is there a scimitar of any type listed among his items.

Knowing our players, they will see 2d6 being rolled and immediately jump to the conclusion that there should be a +1 scimitar up for grabs (well, they will probably think it's sneak attack and then realize that he shouldn't be getting sneak attack with every hit and protest that they aren't flat-footed and then an extensive rules discussion will follow). Then they will expect a +1 scimitar.

The thing is, the NPC's stat block gives no information that explains the 2d6. Is it a typo and should be 1d6 as per the damage for a plain scimitar, or does he actually have a +1 scimitar, or is he supposed to be using the longspear that is the weapon mentioned in his stat block as one of the items he has? Or are you just proving that the rules do not apply to NPCs in any way shape or form and you can fudge the numbers however you like? Which will also cause some very unhappy players when this all goes down.

We would like some guidance on whether an adjustment to "In Pale Mountain's Shadow should be made to add a +1 scimitar to the items carried by the NPC, the damage for the weapon should be reduced to 1d6 instead of 2d6, the longspear used instead of a scimitar, or how we can explain the discrepancy to players who are much too intelligent not to notice that they didn't get a +1 weapon after killing the NPC. They will expect an explanation that makes sense, instead of "I don't know. That's the way it was written."

Most of the time, I just accept that in PF2, the monster stats will be fudged and there is no way to determine if there is actually an error in anything or not, but this definitely seems in the realm of an error as it deals with equipment and not fudged attack bonuses, excess hps, or the particular deadliness of special abilities.

[Jurassic Pratt]

It seems a common theme in these playtest feedback threads is that parties without a cleric constantly teeter on the brink of death/die and and don't have fun, while parties with a cleric don't have much of an issue all survive while having a good time

Right now it seems the encounter math makes clerics necessary to succeed without deaths the majority of the time.

[DerNils]

I do not have the counterexperience, but Clerics outheal any damage I have seen so far with their free heals alone.

[vestris]

Our adventure in the shadows of the pale mountain was pretty nice, the party withstood everything without getting to a single knockout except the water elemental, which almost drowned the barbarian.

The divine sorceror with a minor staff of healing offered more than enough healing for the group. The druid was not needed much, for healing, and he was in animal form for most encounters. However using nature and being generally able to heal between combats saved them some time.

The barbarian and the ranger did not have too much fun against the manticore however when it finally landed they all had a blast slaying it.

[Gwaihir Scout]

Janet Kuhlmann wrote:

We're getting ready to run "In Pale Mountain's Shadow" and my husband noticed that Zafkar does 2d6 with his scimitar and yet it is not indicated as being a +1 weapon, nor is there a scimitar of any type listed among his items.

Zafkar's statblock is actually in the Bestiary, where it's using a scimitar. I also thought the 2d6 was an error, but checking other enemies of about the same level showed that there were several that did 2 dice of damage with no explicit reason. So I'm leaving it as is.

[sherlock1701]

Janet Kuhlmann wrote:

Or are you just proving that the rules do not apply to NPCs in any way shape or form and you can fudge the numbers however you like?

It's this one. They straight-up don't care if it doesn't make sense, they just want monster X to have X abilities.

[Castilliano]

sherlock1701 wrote:

Janet Kuhlmann wrote:

Or are you just proving that the rules do not apply to NPCs in any way shape or form and you can fudge the numbers however you like?

It's this one. They straight-up don't care if it doesn't make sense, they just want monster X to have X abilities.

The gnolls have rules, but not the same ones. So they do a certain amount of damage based on attack rating w/ the combination based on level and perhaps role.

That gnoll, swapping to a greatsword, wouldn't get two dice (not and keep the same attack bonus) and with the damage so similar, might get no adjustments at all.
Pack attack and AoOs are factors too. It's complicated, and unrevealed, but there are rules behind those numbers.