How is the game expected to be played: Should players know ACs and DCs upfront?


General Discussion


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Brief: PF1 had abilities that worked like thus:

Quote:
Clear Mind (Ex): A barbarian may reroll a Will save. This power is used as an immediate action after the first save is attempted, but before the results are revealed by the GM.

PFv2 has no powers like this. This seems deliberate. Further we have powers like this:

Quote:

Trigger You or an ally within range fails an attack roll, saving throw, or skill check by 1 and did not benefit from a conditional bonus.

Range 30 feet
You tilt the scales of luck slightly, adding a +1 conditional bonus to the check retroactively, thus making the check a success.

emphasis in both cases mine. The 2nd power only works if you *know* you failed by 1. This assumes that you *know* the AC of the target exactly. This is a rather large paradigm shift for the game and I wanted to ask if this is intentional - and what information players should be expected to *know* at the table.


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This is an excellent question.


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I can imagine the dialog going like this:

Player: "I rolled a 15."
GM: "You missed."
Player: "I have Bit of Luck. Would a 16 have hit?"
GM: "Yes."
Player: "Then I will use my Bit of Luck to make it a hit."
GM: "Okay."

Of course, if that is not the first attack made against that foe, the player may be able to shorten that dialog. If a previous player hit that foe with a 16, he can simply announce that he is using Bit of Luck since he already knows that it would work. On the other hand, if a previous player already missed with a result of 16 or higher, he would already know not to bother.

Liberty's Edge

This seems very metagamey and MMOish. I'm a bit nonplussed, to be honest.


Short Answer: Yes...?

Long Answer: Real Life is already as depressingly unpredictable as it can be. Why would letting my avatar too still suffer in its own fictional universe be appealing?


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I know AC/DC up front pretty well. Theirs back in black and highway to hell etc. etc.


David knott 242 wrote:

I can imagine the dialog going like this:

Player: "I rolled a 15."
GM: "You missed."
Player: "I have Bit of Luck. Would a 16 have hit?"

Seems like you'd have to have that dialogue twenty times per session in order to use that ability effectively. I'd find that annoying.

But I suspect the answer to the OP's question is 'no'. PF2 is heavy on secrecy, to the extent of the GM rolling many skill checks on the players' behalf so they don't even know if they rolled high or not.

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