***No Unmarked Spoilers in this thread, please - I wish I hadn't read the ones in the playtest! (If you'd like to make broad reference to 'the plan of the evil boss in Book 3 of Mummy's Mask is referenced on Page X, that's fine, just don't actually write the evil plan unless you put a spoiler tag around it***
So, reading through I came across the Gray Maidens prestige archetype (pg 281), which contains some moderately large spoilers about the Curse of the Crimson Throne adventure path.
Specifically, it tells you who the Gray Maidens are, what happens to them, gives away a couple of secrets from Curse of the Crimson Throne, then tells you how the AP ends. All this is unmarked. While it doesn't reference Curse directly by name, it's impossible to run into the Gray Maidens during the AP and not immediately get the references the playtest doc is making.
Are there other AP spoilers I should be aware of to avoid elsewhere in the document?
And is there any possibility of removing them - or at least marking them - for the finished document? Paizo have a LOT of APs out, and there must be plenty of groups that want to play PF2 who haven't made their way through all of them yet.
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And is there any possibility of removing them - or at least marking them - for the finished document? Paizo have a LOT of APs out, and there must be plenty of groups that want to play PF2 who haven't made their way through all of them yet.
Thta probably happened because with PF2, Paizo assumes that all the PF 1 APs have played out in the meantime. Still I agree that it might be a good idea to keep those spoilers to a minimum for those might plan to run those APs in the future. Though in the case of CotCT they probably assumed that they're not really spoiling anything, as this is one of the oldest and most popular APs, so most players would already know the info presented in the book anyways.
Though in the case of CotCT they probably assumed that they're not really spoiling anything, as this is one of the oldest and most popular APs, so most players would already know the info presented in the book anyways.
Sooo...about the goal to attract new players with PF2....did Paizo gave up midway through the document on that?
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And is there any possibility of removing them - or at least marking them - for the finished document? Paizo have a LOT of APs out, and there must be plenty of groups that want to play PF2 who haven't made their way through all of them yet.Thta probably happened because with PF2, Paizo assumes that all the PF 1 APs have played out in the meantime. Still I agree that it might be a good idea to keep those spoilers to a minimum for those might plan to run those APs in the future. Though in the case of CotCT they probably assumed that they're not really spoiling anything, as this is one of the oldest and most popular APs, so most players would already know the info presented in the book anyways.
Yeah, the AP is a decade old and the Grey Maidens are popular and have been showcased outside of the AP they debuted in in the Shattered Star AP, the Lord of Runes Tale, Rune Scars and SPiral of Bones comics, Armor Master's handbook, and they had a full section in the Adventurer's Guide. There's probably other instances too but those are the ones I remember off the top of my head.
It would be so relatively easy to just write "The Gray Maidens are an all-female group of warriors", providing a thin spread of detail without spoiling it.
I wouldn't consider Curse particularly old, either, given it's just been rebooted a year ago!
However, worth noting that PF2 will spoil APs without warning - I read completely over whatever bit this was in in the playtest doc. Thanks folks! I guess GMs who want to use PF1 APs for anything will need to be judicious in what they let the players read.
It would be so relatively easy to just write "The Gray Maidens are an all-female group of warriors", providing a thin spread of detail without spoiling it.
I wouldn't consider Curse particularly old, either, given it's just been rebooted a year ago!
However, worth noting that PF2 will spoil APs without warning - I read completely over whatever bit this was in in the playtest doc. Thanks folks! I guess GMs who want to use PF1 APs for anything will need to be judicious in what they let the players read.
So I wouldn't expect the core book to contain much spoilers (Jason already said in a GenCon seminar that the Grey Maiden is in here only to get playtested, and won't be in the final book. It will be in a future book though) However future books are going to have some for sure. Pretty sure Wraith of the Righteous and Tyrants Grasp will get spoiled early in whatever the new campaign setting entry point is as they can't not.
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Sooo...about the goal to attract new players with PF2....did Paizo gave up midway through the document on that?
No, and why would they? Only that a new player might rather give a newer AP a try, especially when the old one has been written for a former edition of the rules.
Probably with the exception of the Kingmaker AP, that will probably be re-released for PF2 one day. :)
By definition advancing the timeline 10 years means 10 years of things are now historical truths. Known things. They aren't spoilers anymore... they're past events.
Don't play 2018/4718 Pathfinder 2 if you don't want a post-2008/4708 setting.
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Also, I don't know that knowing how an AP ends eliminates any enjoyment you can have playing it.
Knowing what is coming can actually ENHANCE your enjoyment of the story.
I'm running a home game with four paladin PCs, and they keep feeling guilty for not going to the Worldwound, even though they're working on something fairly serious.
But none of them have read Wrath of the Righteous, so don't know . . . well, I'm intending to spoil the ending by having the climax happen a few thousand miles away while they're having their climax elsewhere. Lots of doomsday all happening at once.
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I would expect PF2 to advance the timeline.
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Are there other AP spoilers I should be aware of to avoid elsewhere in the document?
Yes. In the adventure, at the beginning of (almost) every chapter, there are minor and major spoilers for many, if not all, 7 parts. I don't recall them all off-hand, but 2 definitively stand out. When I get home and to the book, I'll give you the chapter numbers, unless someone else beats me to it in the meantime.
I believe the very first introductions of the Pathfinder 2nd edition Playtest there were specific reference to the events of Wrath of, I think, Wrath of the Righteous and Hell's Rebels occurring.
So I think that the assumption of 2nd edition is going to be "all of the APs happened already." So if it's one that involves something that would be sufficiently obvious that its events involve "redrawing the map" it's likely to be spoiled.
Anything further on this? I appreciate the help dodging the spoilers.
On one hand I can see the distress on the other it would be like reading a review on the latest game or movie in a series and then being upset that it spoils information from the previous works. At some point in time there has to be a reasonable cut off from worrying that your 'spoiling' something from someone because they waited years to experience it.
Also, I don't know that knowing how an AP ends eliminates any enjoyment you can have playing it.
Knowing what is coming can actually ENHANCE your enjoyment of the story.
Even if this is true, and isn't just as flawed as the majority of social science and psychology research, I think there's a vast difference between watching or reading a mystery and trying to roleplay characters solving that mystery if you know the result ahead of time.
For Pathfinder, it probably depends on how much focus you put on the story side vs the combats I guess...
Look at the cover illustration on the hardcover copy of Curse of the Crimson Throne, and ask yourself: do you really need spoilers to figure out the gist of how that AP is going down?